OT - Same Attorney General Baltimore Cops/Tom & Bishop

[Vientomas]

"These conflicts include your personal and professional relations with Gray family attorney, William Murphy..."

So knowing a person constitutes a conflict of interest? All criminal defense attorneys have professional relationships with prosecutors. Some even socialize together. That does not create a conflict of interest.

How 'bout more details of the personal and professional "relations" before passing judgment?

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Vientomas

"These conflicts include your personal and professional relations with Gray family attorney, William Murphy..."

So knowing a person constitutes a conflict of interest? All criminal defense attorneys have professional relationships with prosecutors. Some even socialize together. That does not create a conflict of interest.

How 'bout more details of the personal and professional "relations" before passing judgment?

Who's passing judgement? The FOP is speaking up, as are lots of other people on both sides of this. Some cops will go to jail, some won't but this is turning into a media feeding frenzy. Just like the gig with Palermo..'justice' is the idea, yes?

The DA has already mentioned the driver didn't do any 'rough driving', but charged with 2nd degree murder, manslaughter, etc. I'm not defending anybody but this sounds more like defusing the situation, but it's going to do the opposite, IMHO.

[Grant McLean]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

The DA has already mentioned the driver didn't do any 'rough driving', but charged with 2nd degree murder, manslaughter

I'm confused where you heard this.
Ms. Mosby made no mention of "rough rides" in her statement.
In fact, legal experts are speculating this will be central to the case
against the driver.

"David Gray, a law professor at the University of Maryland, said charging the driver with the most serious offense suggests Ms. Mosby is taking aim at the “rough ride,” in which police take suspects on a turbulent ride in the back of police wagons while they are handcuffed and unable to support themselves. Ms. Mosby made no mention of rough rides in her statement."

http://www.wsj.com/articles/baltimor...ath-1430492304

[Vientomas]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Who's passing judgement?

The Police Union.

[Climb01742]

When you can't argue the facts, distract. FOP are trying to divert and delay. Yes, their mission is to advocate for police but the tone of their comments yesterday sounded like same old all cops are angels crap. BPD is notorious for their brutality. It feels like they've met their match in a state's attorney, mayor and police commissioner the cops can't BS. Hope the winds of change really are blowing.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Grant McLean

I'm confused where you heard this.
Ms. Mosby made no mention of "rough rides" in her statement.
In fact, legal experts are speculating this will be central to the case
against the driver.

"David Gray, a law professor at the University of Maryland, said charging the driver with the most serious offense suggests Ms. Mosby is taking aim at the “rough ride,” in which police take suspects on a turbulent ride in the back of police wagons while they are handcuffed and unable to support themselves. Ms. Mosby made no mention of rough rides in her statement."

http://www.wsj.com/articles/baltimor...ath-1430492304

From NYTimes, ""Ms. Mosby did not allege that the van driver, Officer Caesar R. Goodson, Jr., intentionally gave Mr. Gray a “rough ride,” to slam him against the metal walls of the van. But Officer Goodson was charged with second-degree murder, manslaughter, assault and misconduct in office."

I'm not taking any sides but this is turning into a media circus, IMHO.

[Grant McLean]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

From NYTimes, ""Ms. Mosby did not allege that the van driver, Officer Caesar R. Goodson, Jr., intentionally gave Mr. Gray a “rough ride,” to slam him against the metal walls of the van. But Officer Goodson was charged with second-degree murder, manslaughter, assault and misconduct in office."

You said the driver was "cleared", not at all the same thing! The fact Ms Mosby didn't allege a rough ride
at the announcement doesn't mean she won't at trial.

[rugbysecondrow]

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1430576880.104622.jpg


I hope this conversation can be elevated above race. black Congressman, black states attorney, black mayor, black general in charge of the Army guard, black police commissioner, half of the officers charged in the death of Gray are black. What we have is no longer a black-white conversation, but rather a conversation which should be more nuanced. It is akin to discussing geopolitics based on a Cold War way of thinking...it just isn't applicable anymore.

The police have a unique responsibility. When you take somebody into custody, you are responsible for their safety and well being. While in custody, suspects can no longer protect themselves, you have removed their free will. Along with that comes a great deal of responsibility, and the police failed here. Was it intentional? I don't know. Was it race related? I really don't think so. These police officers are in a rough part of town, with nearly all black residents, and the police are charged with reducing crime and managing a horribly significant criminal element. The suspect was a known drug dealer, with multiple arrests and convictions and he took off running from the police when they saw him. This doesn't mean he should have died, or even been arrested, but in context, I can understand why they chased him down.




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[cinema]

Originally Posted by rugbysecondrow

Attachment 1697899722


I hope this conversation can be elevated above race. black Congressman, black states attorney, black mayor, black general in charge of the Army guard, black police commissioner, half of the officers charged in the death of Gray are black. What we have is no longer a black-white conversation, but rather a conversation which should be more nuanced. It is akin to discussing geopolitics based on a Cold War way of thinking...it just isn't applicable anymore.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly. This is about power and the HUMAN race. But race is still a big part of the specific matrix that our police have to operate in. Just because some of the officers being charged are black doesn't absolve them of racial bias, they aren't exclusive. Just look at how the other officers responded to the man who was shot in the back as he ran away. When you have that kind of power, the more people around you who act like it's normal the more normal it really is, subjectively speaking. Paraphrasing Foucault's words, 'Facism is in all of us, our everyday behavior, it makes us love power, desiring the very thing that destroys us.'

I think it is important to zero in on specific issues that affect people directly. In this case race is a good platform. A lot of people want to analyze these feverish national outcries/riots/protests by 'looking at the bigger picture' or saying 'All lives matter, not just blacks" but in doing so a special opportunity to really fix specific things disappears, even though, yes, it is part of a myriad of issues that build on one another.

[rugbysecondrow]

I agree. I would add that just because a suspect is black, it doesn't automatically make racial bias part of the equation either.

There is a great deal of ownership and responsibility which should be born by many parties, so this isn't just a police problem, or black community problem, this is a problem which requires many facets for solutions.


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[professerr]

Originally Posted by rugbysecondrow

Attachment 1697899722


I hope this conversation can be elevated above race. black Congressman, black states attorney, black mayor, black general in charge of the Army guard, black police commissioner, half of the officers charged in the death of Gray are black. What we have is no longer a black-white conversation, but rather a conversation which should be more nuanced. It is akin to discussing geopolitics based on a Cold War way of thinking...it just isn't applicable anymore.

The police have a unique responsibility. When you take somebody into custody, you are responsible for their safety and well being. While in custody, suspects can no longer protect themselves, you have removed their free will. Along with that comes a great deal of responsibility, and the police failed here. Was it intentional? I don't know. Was it race related? I really don't think so. These police officers are in a rough part of town, with nearly all black residents, and the police are charged with reducing crime and managing a horribly significant criminal element. The suspect was a known drug dealer, with multiple arrests and convictions and he took off running from the police when they saw him. This doesn't mean he should have died, or even been arrested, but in context, I can understand why they chased him down.

Yes, that's the important thing to note here, that this is a great teachable moment as to why a discussion about race "is akin to discussing geopolitics based on a Cold War way of thinking."

[Ray]

Originally Posted by rugbysecondrow

I agree. I would add that just because a suspect is black, it doesn't automatically make racial bias part of the equation either.

There is a great deal of ownership and responsibility which should be born by many parties, so this isn't just a police problem, or black community problem, this is a problem which requires many facets for solutions.

I don't think that it was any sort of direct "he's black, let's nab him" kind of thing at all. The identity of three of the six cops should make that plain. But race is just PART of the whole social/economic profile that I'm sure cops start to see when they get to know a city and it's neighborhoods. This is a really poor and very high crime part of Baltimore, and it's a largely African-American area also.

I'm sure cops in that neighborhood have their guards up for a lot of reasons and race isn't one of them in any sort of intentional way. But it's part of the shorthand, part of what they're accustomed to seeing there, and part of a subconscious checklist they're constantly running through their heads, out of self-preservation if nothing else. So I don't think we can fully discount it either. My guess if this kid had been white in the same location in the same situation, he'd have been a lot less likely to have been chased down, tackled, arrested, and tossed in a paddy wagon with nothing more than a legal knife on him.

It's a tough neighborhood that cops have to be wary of and race is only a part of it. But I'm pretty sure it is PART of it, even if sub-consciously... Yes, ALL lives matter, but white lives are a lot less likely to come to this sort of end in this country and that's not just coincidence. Which is why this kind of story is getting so much play now. There are countervailing factors in lots of the individual cases, but the sheer number of individual cases that are popping up now, largely because of social media and instant video everywhere, makes the larger racial issue pretty much unavoidable. This Baltimore case seems to be where everything since Trayvon Martin is hitting critical mass and coming to a head. Race is surely A factor here...

-Ray

[soulspinner]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Gonna be interesting and it's a long way from being 'in the can'. Driver has been cleared of 'rough driving', yet also charged with manslaughter.

And then there is this.

http://www.youngcons.com/baltimore-p...to-gray-family

Skimmed the thread but didnt the coroner call it homicide? Now its just who dunnit.........

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Grant McLean

You said the driver was "cleared", not at all the same thing! The fact Ms Mosby didn't allege a rough ride
at the announcement doesn't mean she won't at trial.

Didn't say 'cleared', said that the DA didn't mention it. I'm out, too much emotion for me.

[Grant McLean]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Gonna be interesting and it's a long way from being 'in the can'. Driver has been cleared of 'rough driving', yet also charged with manslaughter.

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

The DA has already mentioned the driver didn't do any 'rough driving', but charged with 2nd degree murder, manslaughter, etc. I'm not defending anybody but this sounds more like defusing the situation, but it's going to do the opposite, IMHO.

^
i wouldn't even had responded but for this.
First you said "cleared", than you said the DA "already mentioned",
then quoted a story that said she didn't mention it.

Need more coffee before saturday morning typing perhaps?

-g