Training: The least amount required.

[stephenmarklay]

Originally Posted by ultraman6970

If you do another activity then you are ok physically speaking unless you are really overweight. My only question and since I dont know you is... are you a smasher?? is your cadence good, how is your pedaling technique?

A lot of people do not realize how bad is to be a smasher and they ride all the time with the 53x11 and they dont even go that fast.

The 1st thing you have to train is the cadence... cadence and pedaling technique is the base of cycling. You do martial arts, no idea which one but as in martial arts you have base positions that is the 1st thing you learn, punches and kicks right? if you do those bad there is no way you will be able to perform at higher belts (unless you are in a TKO place where parents pretty much buy the belts, you know what im talking about for sure)

That being said, cadence and pedaling technique is the base of everything in cycling, once you master those two will be really hard for anybody to drop you specially if your friends are just normal people, not like cat3 and up riders. Which can spin those pedals all day long.

Thanks! I do try and spin and have use the Ed Sasler’s recommendations best I can. I do feel super efficient at above 90rpm so I can spend and hour of fast spinning during the week. I try hard not to mash.

[kgreene10]

At 47, HIIT with about 8 total training hours a week brought me from an okay Cat 4 to a top 10-15 finisher in Cat 3 road races and crits.

[stephenmarklay]

Originally Posted by mtechnica

Focus on your diet, eat less meat and dairy, completely cut out alcohol, make sure you're getting enough sleep, stretch more, improve your bike fit and comfort if possible, try to rest more during the week if you can.

Maybe once you have all of that stuff in order then worry about training more. I think a lot of cyclists are overweight, inflexible, and have poor diets and it makes a really big difference.

I am about as good as I can get in all of the these respects save for bike fit (I am 90% on this but I am thinking of working on it a bit more. I could sleep a little better but that is not an easy nut to crack. Having said that I am in bed by 9:00am latest.

[stephenmarklay]

Originally Posted by kgreene10

At 47, HIIT with about 8 total training hours a week brought me from an okay Cat 4 to a top 10-15 finisher in Cat 3 road races and crits.

Let me know what you are doing.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by kgreene10

At 47, HIIT with about 8 total training hours a week brought me from an okay Cat 4 to a top 10-15 finisher in Cat 3 road races and crits.

This..1000%.

[earlfoss]

I got drunk every night last week and raced great all weekend.

[redir]

Originally Posted by earlfoss

I got drunk every night last week and raced great all weekend.

I'm guessing you are a lot younger. I definitely did the same thing when I was. In fact one of the best races I ever did was when I was considerably hung over. It was a race with an 8 mile finish clime, I'm not even a climber and I ended up 3rd place by a hiar. By the end of the race the hang over was gone

But when you get closer to the OP's age like I am now too, it just doesn't work, unless maybe you are a freak of nature.

[54ny77]

Just because I'm fat, slow and can't touch my toes, is that why I'm not in the pro tour?

Originally Posted by mtechnica

I think a lot of cyclists are overweight, inflexible, and have poor diets and it makes a really big difference.

[mtechnica]

Originally Posted by stephenmarklay

I am about as good as I can get in all of the these respects save for bike fit (I am 90% on this but I am thinking of working on it a bit more. I could sleep a little better but that is not an easy nut to crack. Having said that I am in bed by 9:00am latest.

Yeah I think you just need to ride more then, lol. It sucks because there's really no replacement for getting miles in. Can you commute to work on a bike? I've started doing that even though it kinda sucks, just to get more miles in during the week.

[nooneline]

Originally Posted by kgreene10

At 47, HIIT with about 8 total training hours a week brought me from an okay Cat 4 to a top 10-15 finisher in Cat 3 road races and crits.

FWIW, I'm a Cat 1 and 2 in my two disciplines, and in the past 2.5 months I've averaged a hair over 8 hrs/week.

It ain't the time, it's how you spend it. I'll happily provide a coach rec.

[Joachim]

The OP is asking after getting dropped on a 4hr ride. While I'm not sure just how hard the 4hr ride was, doing a bunch of "time crunched" or HIIT, won't help much to get that endurance to "be there" at the end of the 4hr ride. He already mentioned that he was sitting in the wheels while two others were the pulling for the final two hrs. Thats about the max where I see "time crunched" riders fade, ie after the first two hrs. There is just no real substitute for endurance but endurance. While some studies show some aerobic activity with high intensity intervals, in general the benefits from endurance training, does not occur with high intensity training. For more on this, see this piece on endurance/z2 training from Inigio San Millan: https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/z...ance-athletes/

This explains how the endurance training works and will help the OP those final two hrs. With high intensity training he can "buffer" a lot for 1-2hr rides/races/crits etc, but once you get into HARD 4hr rides, then you have to put in the hrs. There are no magic workouts that will replace endurance training or at least the phyisological adaptations the body gets from Z2 training (again, see the article I linked to). Some might disagre, but my coaching experience have shown this time and time again. I have "pulled" more than 1 rider out of overtraining syndrome after going overboard with "time crunched" workout, so take care if you choose to go that route.

To the OP, I'll be more than willing to share some workouts with you that "might" help, doing 1min max on and 1min OFF and 40/20 tabata's aint it.

[stephenmarklay]

Originally Posted by Joachim

The OP is asking after getting dropped on a 4hr ride. While I'm not sure just how hard the 4hr ride was, doing a bunch of "time crunched" or HIIT, won't help much to get that endurance to "be there" at the end of the 4hr ride. He already mentioned that he was sitting in the wheels while two others were the pulling for the final two hrs. Thats about the max where I see "time crunched" riders fade, ie after the first two hrs. There is just no real substitute for endurance but endurance. While some studies show some aerobic activity with high intensity intervals, in general the benefits from endurance training, does not occur with high intensity training. For more on this, see this piece on endurance/z2 training from Inigio San Millan: https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/z...ance-athletes/

This explains how the endurance training works and will help the OP those final two hrs. With high intensity training he can "buffer" a lot for 1-2hr rides/races/crits etc, but once you get into HARD 4hr rides, then you have to put in the hrs. There are no magic workouts that will replace endurance training or at least the phyisological adaptations the body gets from Z2 training (again, see the article I linked to). Some might disagre, but my coaching experience have shown this time and time again. I have "pulled" more than 1 rider out of overtraining syndrome after going overboard with "time crunched" workout, so take care if you choose to go that route.

To the OP, I'll be more than willing to share some workouts with you that "might" help, doing 1min max on and 1min OFF and 40/20 tabata's aint it.

I would be very happy for any advice. My big fear is not getting enough recovery and that is a real possibility doing my other workouts as well. I can always fit one long (3 hours or so) ride each week in addition to my Sunday team ride.

[Joachim]

Originally Posted by stephenmarklay

I would be very happy for any advice. My big fear is not getting enough recovery and that is a real possibility doing my other workouts as well. I can always fit one long (3 hours or so) ride each week in addition to my Sunday team ride.

You can PM me and i'll help where I can.

[Bostic]

Some of the cyclists I used to ride with lived by the "Raise the left, fill the right" phrase (or is it the other way around?) Basically raise the FTP and high intensity which in turns makes the endurance pace creep up as a result. Does that apply here at all?

They got faster but stick to the racing scene and < than 4 hour rides where as I'm still medium (not slow, not fast) and stick to long distance riding and a few double centuries per year.

[nooneline]

Originally Posted by Bostic

Some of the cyclists I used to ride with lived by the "Raise the left, fill the right" phrase (or is it the other way around?) Basically raise the FTP and high intensity which in turns makes the endurance pace creep up as a result. Does that apply here at all?

That's the buffering that Joachim mentions.