Garmin

[Avincent52]

Can someone please explain Garmin to me?

They seem to have achieved Apple-level market dominance.
But without Apple-style innovation or design.

From what I can tell a Garmin 500/510 compares to my $50 Specialized Speed Zone thusly.

a) Both tell me how long and how fast I've been riding and minor calculations like average speed.
b) the Garmin twice as big
c) Before the recent price drops, it cost 5-6 times as much.
d) You have to upgrade to a bigger, spendier model to get decent turn-by-turn directions (but even those aren't quite Apple Maps quality.)
e) It sometimes fails when you lose a satellite connection because you're riding on a tree-shaded road
f) It sometimes fails 30 miles into a ride for no apparent reason
g) The company doesn't really seem to care all that much.
h) The Garmin does tell you where you've been after you're done. (But your Iphone with Strava does that for free, if you're really interested.)

I can see the advantage of the new 520 if you're way into Strava.

But as a guy coming from the outside, a Garmin seems more like a Zune than an Iphone.

So I'm asking seriously: What was the appeal of these devices a decade ago that allowed Garmin to establish this kind of market dominance?

And right at this moment, does it make sense to get on board the Garmin train, or is this the final days of the Garmin empire?

[MattTuck]

^^^ Depends on what you want to do.

Garmin is a single use, dedicated device. If you are ok with your phone, go crazy with it. If you want, you can get a Wahoo RFLKT to integrate with your phone and give you a cycle-computer feel. Add a Wahoo TCKR X, and you've got heart rate too.

I mean, I like riding with a GPS because it has maps. so I can go on a new road and have confidence in where it will put me out 10 miles later. That is nice, and I get to keep a record of every where I ride. That is fun for me. Is it necessary? No. it is just fun.

Strava is ok too. Cool, I see I did a segment a minute faster than the last time I did that hill. That's fun information to have. Is it necessary? no. Just fun.

[tuxbailey]

Originally Posted by Avincent52

Can someone please explain Garmin to me?

They seem to have achieved Apple-level market dominance.
But without Apple-style innovation or design.

From what I can tell a Garmin 500/510 compares to my $50 Specialized Speed Zone thusly.

a) Both tell me how long and how fast I've been riding and minor calculations like average speed.
b) the Garmin twice as big
c) Before the recent price drops, it cost 5-6 times as much.
d) You have to upgrade to a bigger, spendier model to get decent turn-by-turn directions (but even those aren't quite Apple Maps quality.)
e) It sometimes fails when you lose a satellite connection because you're riding on a tree-shaded road
f) It sometimes fails 30 miles into a ride for no apparent reason
g) The company doesn't really seem to care all that much.
h) The Garmin does tell you where you've been after you're done. (But your Iphone with Strava does that for free, if you're really interested.)

I can see the advantage of the new 520 if you're way into Strava.

But as a guy coming from the outside, a Garmin seems more like a Zune than an Iphone.

So I'm asking seriously: What was the appeal of these devices a decade ago that allowed Garmin to establish this kind of market dominance?

And right at this moment, does it make sense to get on board the Garmin train, or is this the final days of the Garmin empire?

It just has a good way to organize your data in the cloud after you upload them. Battery life is pretty good and the product is fairly reliable. I also have the GSC-10 sensor (captures the data from the wheel as well as cadence) when the GPS is not visible.

[OtayBW]

So, as far as I know, the Spec is just a straightforward bike computer and does not do GPS at all. I'm personally not a fan of the Garmin company and their support at all, but I do like their Edge 500 fairly well.

Originally Posted by Avincent52

Can someone please explain Garmin to me?

They seem to have achieved Apple-level market dominance.
But without Apple-style innovation or design.

From what I can tell a Garmin 500/510 compares to my $50 Specialized Speed Zone thusly.

a) Both tell me how long and how fast I've been riding and minor calculations like average speed.
b) the Garmin twice as big
No big whoop. The Edge 500 is still the size of a matchbox and takes up no real estate on the bar if you use a K-edge mount or similar
c) Before the recent price drops, it cost 5-6 times as much.
I don't know that you can compare price of a standard computer with a GPS system
d) You have to upgrade to a bigger, spendier model to get decent turn-by-turn directions (but even those aren't quite Apple Maps quality.)
Again, I like just the trip and upload capability of the Edge and don't need or want turn-by-turn
e) It sometimes fails when you lose a satellite connection because you're riding on a tree-shaded road
This is called 'multipath error' and it is something that I rarely, if ever, encounter with the Garmin.
f) It sometimes fails 30 miles into a ride for no apparent reason
Yup - happens sometimes, but very rarely in my case
g) The company doesn't really seem to care all that much.
Agree completely. I cannot stand the Garmin company and would go out of my way to evaluate other options on a new purchase
h) The Garmin does tell you where you've been after you're done. (But your Iphone with Strava does that for free, if you're really interested.)
If you're not happy with the size of the Garmin vs the Specialized, I don't think that use of an IPhone is much of a fix. I certainly don't want a phone mounted up on any of my rides

I can see the advantage of the new 520 if you're way into Strava.

But as a guy coming from the outside, a Garmin seems more like a Zune than an Iphone.

So I'm asking seriously: What was the appeal of these devices a decade ago that allowed Garmin to establish this kind of market dominance?

And right at this moment, does it make sense to get on board the Garmin train, or is this the final days of the Garmin empire?

Bottom line for me: I like the Garmin product(s) but cannot stand the company and their support, especially for software issues. A smartphone is no alternative for me....

[benb]

Yah.. Garmin's maps are still better than Google's, Apple is not even in the ballgame.. maybe some devices have T-B-T bugs which is pretty inexcusable but the ones that work (even old ones) do a great job.

I made the mistake of using Apple Maps navigating near the Charlotte International Airport in NC earlier this summer.. Apple hadn't even updated the maps with the entirely new traffic flow and roads yet.. a major airport with construction that had finished quite a while ago.

The bizarre thing is you can't use Garmin Maps inside Garmin Connect. If you could load up your ride/run on their Topo 24k maps inside Garmin Connect it would be significantly better than Google/Bing maps.

You use these devices because they're waterproof, work well with gloves, have UIs that work while cycling, have good battery life compared to smartphones, have screens that work in sunlight, etc, etc, etc.. it would be great if say Apple did make a device like this since Garmin does indeed have big software quality problems (but I would say they are getting better, not worse) but Apple and Google will never be building these devices because they can't sell them to the masses since the masses just don't care.

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by Avincent52

So I'm asking seriously: What was the appeal of these devices a decade ago that allowed Garmin to establish this kind of market dominance?

And right at this moment, does it make sense to get on board the Garmin train, or is this the final days of the Garmin empire?

I can't remember outright, but, navigation didn't even exist in their devices a decade ago. I really don't know what they offered a decade ago. I was using a simple computer to get the basics and then an Android smartphone around 08 to record my data on MapMyRide, but still using the computer on the bar. I'm not spending all that money to put my hand held supercomputer (I heard it described as that the other day in a serious essay) on my handlebar, sorry. Besides, it has lousy battery life and is too big.
Am I missing something, though? Can I create a ride in RidewithGPS, somehow get it up on my phone, and have it give me turn by turn instructions? Would be cool though one of those earpieces.
Anyway, for now it works most of the time on the Garmin. I think I know how to work around it, and, I'm not happy, but, I have been around computers long enough in various situations that I try not to get too upset with their performance, if it rises above a certain level. I'm reminded of that Louis CK bit, when he describes a seat mate in a plane getting all hot and bothered when the wi-fi went down. You know, we're hurdling through the air at 400 miles and hour in a metal tube. Lighten up. It'll get better.

And Google maps are far better than Apple maps. If there is one thing Google does well, it's maps.

[don compton]

After trying a Garmin 520, I took it back and settled on a simple Edge 20. Just enough info for me. Thanks for all the replies

[LJohnny]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

I can't remember outright, but, navigation didn't even exist in their devices a decade ago. I really don't know what they offered a decade ago. I was using a simple computer to get the basics and then an Android smartphone around 08 to record my data on MapMyRide, but still using the computer on the bar. I'm not spending all that money to put my hand held supercomputer (I heard it described as that the other day in a serious essay) on my handlebar, sorry. Besides, it has lousy battery life and is too big.
Am I missing something, though? Can I create a ride in RidewithGPS, somehow get it up on my phone, and have it give me turn by turn instructions? Would be cool though one of those earpieces.
Anyway, for now it works most of the time on the Garmin. I think I know how to work around it, and, I'm not happy, but, I have been around computers long enough in various situations that I try not to get too upset with their performance, if it rises above a certain level. I'm reminded of that Louis CK bit, when he describes a seat mate in a plane getting all hot and bothered when the wi-fi went down. You know, we're hurdling through the air at 400 miles and hour in a metal tube. Lighten up. It'll get better.

And Google maps are far better than Apple maps. If there is one thing Google does well, it's maps.

You can indeed ride a prepared route with subscription form of RwGPS, not the free version. You can either download or use from the cloud.


Sent from my brain

[rollingbarge]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

I can't remember outright, but, navigation didn't even exist in their devices a decade ago. I really don't know what they offered a decade ago. I was using a simple computer to get the basics and then an Android smartphone around 08 to record my data on MapMyRide, but still using the computer on the bar. I'm not spending all that money to put my hand held supercomputer (I heard it described as that the other day in a serious essay) on my handlebar, sorry. Besides, it has lousy battery life and is too big.
Am I missing something, though? Can I create a ride in RidewithGPS, somehow get it up on my phone, and have it give me turn by turn instructions? Would be cool though one of those earpieces.
Anyway, for now it works most of the time on the Garmin. I think I know how to work around it, and, I'm not happy, but, I have been around computers long enough in various situations that I try not to get too upset with their performance, if it rises above a certain level. I'm reminded of that Louis CK bit, when he describes a seat mate in a plane getting all hot and bothered when the wi-fi went down. You know, we're hurdling through the air at 400 miles and hour in a metal tube. Lighten up. It'll get better.

And Google maps are far better than Apple maps. If there is one thing Google does well, it's maps.

My 500 doesn't call out turns but with a "course" uploaded to it it will show an overview of the route as well as were you are on it. If you desire street name call outs it did not do that. Or possible I don't know how.

My friend with the 1000 got a really nice map on it that you can use like you would your smartphone map. That was pretty handy when looking for roads.


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