Interesting article about steel bike frames

[Rudy]

My Ellis is a mutt. Dave Wages chose each tube. And nailed it.

[benito]

tange ultra strong DS chain stay?

intrigueing premise... but yes: best for whom. the computer?

i hope that computer is fat like me.

[marciero]

What might be of interest here is the technique used to do the modelling, or rather, how the technique is applied to bike design. From the title, "Parametric finite element analysis..." it appears to be an application of standard engineering techniques. The language "best" and "highest performing" in the article was written by the Cycling Weekly writer, not the engineers. As some here have pointed out, it depends on how you measure "best", etc. "Optimal based on this metric" would better describe. I'm sure that whatever metric they used can be changed in the algorithm. That's the whole idea of software. It seems they used a rather simple metric based on vertical and lateral stiffness. But that doesn't mean you could'nt use more nuanced metrics that were based on rider preferences. That's where the bike designer would come in. Defining those metrics is a completely different question though.

Another thing is that the algorithm apparently just ran a case-by-case simulation using all different combinations of existing available tubes. What would be great is if tube diameter and wall thickness were the "parameters" in the title, with the algorithm determining which tube profiles were optimal with respect to a user-defined metric. Maybe this is in fact the case, since you would think you input those parameters since they determine the mechanical properties that the algorithm is based on. You would think you could run simulations based on profiles for tubes that are not currently available.

[paredown]

It would be great to read the conference paper for details.

Anyone going--Barcelona is fabulous in the fall!

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

Steel is real, baby!

Hell yeah. Have 5, on the hunt for number 6. Have ti, carbon etc., always go back to steel.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Still relevant

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/...-tubing-189907

I think the 'study' is kinda silly but my take-away is that in spite of the 3 other frame material 'revolutions', aluminum, titanium and now carbon, carbon, everywhere..the steel bike tubing makers have not been sitting on their hands. Modern steel tubesets into bike frames are still the best combo of what you are looking for in a bike frame, IMHO.

Also interesting it seems this steel(and titanium) renaissance is centered in the US. I have a friend in the Netherlands and he is having a real hard time finding anybody decent, fairly close, who will build him a steel frame like he wants.

Probably gonna get a Waterford or Gunnar.

[weisan]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Modern steel tubesets into bike frames are still the best combo of what you are looking for in a bike frame, IMHO.
...

Tell that to the Carbon/Ti crowd...
BTW, I agree.

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

I have a friend in the Netherlands and he is having a real hard time finding anybody decent, fairly close, who will build him a steel frame like he wants.

Maybe this guy can.


That's really hard to imagine...we talkin' about a country that has more bikes than cars. I am not doubting his words but maybe he's not looking at the right places...what about the rest of EU, that got to be closer than US?

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by weisan

Tell that to the Carbon/Ti crowd...
BTW, I agree.



Maybe this guy can.


That's really hard to imagine...we talkin' about a country that has more bikes than cars. I am not doubting his words but maybe he's not looking at the right places...what about the rest of EU, that got to be closer than US?

He wants a race oriented steel frame. He's looked at RIH and another German manufacturer but they seem so hesitant to do what he wants.
Carbon? easy..trekspecializedgiantcannondale.....Batavus and Gazelle..long time Dutch brands...that just do 'Dutchies'...

[velomonkey]

All I got to say is that on my Ti bike everything rides fine and as expected. No surprises.

On my carbon bike, which rides like most any other non-lugged carbon bike, my right arm falls asleep on every ride and sometimes my foot, too. I've done the measurement thing a million times, it's not the setup. It's the feedback from the rest of the bike (both bikes have the same deda cockpit).

[CaptStash]

Originally Posted by Rudy

My Ellis is a mutt. Dave Wages chose each tube. And nailed it.

Wouldn't the bike last longer if he had welded it instead of using nails?

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by velomonkey

All I got to say is that on my Ti bike everything rides fine and as expected. No surprises.

On my carbon bike, which rides like most any other non-lugged carbon bike, my right arm falls asleep on every ride and sometimes my foot, too. I've done the measurement thing a million times, it's not the setup. It's the feedback from the rest of the bike (both bikes have the same deda cockpit).

Not sure you've seen my post but my Moots put my hands to sleep every ride. Wasn't fit...asked the big boy at Moots, 'what am I to do???', he said put a steel fork on it.....I did and adios numb hands...OMG it's heavy tho...

[happycampyer]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

I think the 'study' is kinda silly but my take-away is that in spite of the 3 other frame material 'revolutions', aluminum, titanium and now carbon, carbon, everywhere..the steel bike tubing makers have not been sitting on their hands. Modern steel tubesets into bike frames are still the best combo of what you are looking for in a bike frame, IMHO.

Also interesting it seems this steel(and titanium) renaissance is centered in the US. I have a friend in the Netherlands and he is having a real hard time finding anybody decent, fairly close, who will build him a steel frame like he wants.

Probably gonna get a Waterford or Gunnar.

Jeager isn't that far from your friend. Their frames are beautiful and ride superbly, even if the tubes weren't selected by a computer optimization program.

[weisan]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

...OMG it's heavy tho...

funny, I was thinking about the same thing yesterday about my 32h H Plus Son wheels during the group ride...bombproof, yes...weight wennie, nope.

[martl]

Originally Posted by CaptStash

Wouldn't the bike last longer if he had welded it instead of using nails?

Richard Sachs nails it, too

[na3s]

Very cool read!