Fit studios in the Naples Florida area???

[Ti Designs]

Originally Posted by EDS

I don't get this. The two fittings I have had have involved some form of tech/motion capture as part of the fit, but those were used as visual aids for the fitter and to help show me aspects of my fit and pedal stroke that could be changed. So for example, they can show me how having my saddle too high impacts my pedal stroke. The fitter used that data coupled with their experience and my feedback (my preferences, type of riding, flexibility, etc.) to arrive at a position. Neither of the fitters I went to just stuck with what the computer said.

So you had a view of how you were pedaling the bike during the fitting. Our previous system used the same thing. Now I'm gonna ask for an honest answer - did that do you any good at all after the fitting? Without the video, a good fitter could have made the same changes. The video was to sell it to the customer.

Video is a good training aid, sadly you don't get to take the equipment home with you, so it's just a snapshot of how you looked in the fitting. For less than the cost of most of those fittings you could have gotten a camera and monitor and set it up in your own basement.

It comes down to the argument about how long a fitting takes. The high-end fitting guys say it takes around 4 hours (interview, physical assessment, measuring, set-up, fitting, lunch...), I say it's more about the rider than the bike, and the learning process takes weeks, months, sometimes years. If it's 4 hours, having the video and measuring equipment makes perfect sense. If it's a matter of learning motor skills and adapting to the position, it takes a bit longer.

[Ralph]

Good luck in working this out. I'm sure us folks in Florida would enjoy your company during a winter season. Don't have any idea how that would work out for you financially.

Technology has changed almost every profession you can name. Sometimes for the better, and sometimes not....IMHO.

When technology started to rapidly change how the financial services industry delivered it's products, I just decided to retire. Screw it! I could do that, I was an old guy.

Younger workers at my old firm, had to learn the new ways, better or not, and ones that did....prospered. Ones that fought it and didn't change, struggled on out their days. Sometimes you just have to think of your own future, and get on with what YOU have to do to survive. You are a highly talented, knowledgeable, and experience individual. I'm confident you will figure out how to prosper in this changing new age. Your can do positive attitude has helped many, so just roll with it, and grow with the times.

[EDS]

Originally Posted by Ti Designs

So you had a view of how you were pedaling the bike during the fitting. Our previous system used the same thing. Now I'm gonna ask for an honest answer - did that do you any good at all after the fitting? Without the video, a good fitter could have made the same changes. The video was to sell it to the customer.

Video is a good training aid, sadly you don't get to take the equipment home with you, so it's just a snapshot of how you looked in the fitting. For less than the cost of most of those fittings you could have gotten a camera and monitor and set it up in your own basement.

It comes down to the argument about how long a fitting takes. The high-end fitting guys say it takes around 4 hours (interview, physical assessment, measuring, set-up, fitting, lunch...), I say it's more about the rider than the bike, and the learning process takes weeks, months, sometimes years. If it's 4 hours, having the video and measuring equipment makes perfect sense. If it's a matter of learning motor skills and adapting to the position, it takes a bit longer.

I don't think the fitter needed the video to make the changes but it helped me understand why he was recommending certain changes to my position. It also helped me understand what changes I may need to make, or what to look for going forward.

[Ti Designs]

Originally Posted by Ralph

Technology has changed almost every profession you can name. Sometimes for the better, and sometimes not....IMHO.

It's easy to embrace technology without questioning if it's better or not, which is where this is heading. There's little doubt that bike fitting has gotten much better than it was 25 years ago, but at the same time we've focused so much on the technology that we've lost track of the end goal. My opinion is that cycling should be focused on the rider, not the bike, not the fitting method and certainly not the numbers. A good rider on just about any bike that kinda fits is far better off than an unskilled rider with the best bike and what the computer says is a good fit.

The marketing is a different story. I know it' a VHS vs. Beta scenario, the one with the better marketing, not the better product, wins. There are many places saying "we have the latest technology" and one idiot saying "learn how to ride", who do you think is gonna win? Just the same, I have a marketing strategy that's been working. I play with the competitive nature of cyclists. If you ride with a group, and then one of the riders starts getting better on the bike than the rest, they all want to know how, and how they can do the same. Their knee jerk reaction is to spend more on the bike - that's OK, I happen to work at a bike shop and I'll be glad to sell them some new carbon wheels. At some point they should figure out it's the rider, and they'll need to follow the same steps - I say should because very few of them do. I'm still working on that...

Originally Posted by EDS

I don't think the fitter needed the video to make the changes but it helped me understand why he was recommending certain changes to my position. It also helped me understand what changes I may need to make, or what to look for going forward.

Did the fitter make changes to the bike or how the rider uses the bike? If he didn't need the video and he only changed the bike, the video was purely a sales tool - I'm guessing the fit with video is more expensive than the fit without? If the fitter made changes to how you ride, the assumption must be that your perception of what you're doing is accurate, 'cause once the fitting is over, so is the video feedback. Allow me to burst that bubble for you, it's not.

The saving grace here is that it's not that complicated. The cameras were probably already in place, it gives you something to look at, and it gives you the sense that the service was better than it would have been without it. The more complex the fitting systems get the more lost in the process the clients become. I went to Retul University, I watched a room full of fitters looking at numbers on a screen, and somehow they missed the fact that the rider was outside of her range of motion on one side.

[fuzzalow]

I dunno, there are lots of pieces in working out a comfortable & powerful position on a bike. Lots of different ways to approach and solve the puzzle. But virtually ever common folktale ever spewed on the web on fit & position is malarkey.

As an overall view, IMO the more multifaceted the approach is, the more accurate and adequate will be the solution. Ti Designs approach is different than most of what is repeated ad nausea as common wisdom on the web which is what makes Ti Designs approach much more capable of solving the problem. The solutions come neither simple or easy but it is also not rocket science.

The easiest way to know if someone has even got half a clue is "can they ride comfortably with a stroke exhibiting power & souplesse". The other half-clue is then "do they know how and why to do it". And I am highly doubtful that the typical fitting school graduate/trainee has any clue about this whatsoever - caveat emptor. Those fitters blow smoke and say they know; easy to see if they do or not - Do It and Show Me.

BTW, IMO racers are the worst example of validating a good fit & position because they are the most driven & motivated and will ride any position short of a bare post and K-Y if they believed it will make them faster. They typically spend so much time on the bike and have so much ego involved that they will be willing to adapt to anything so they are the worst example as proof. Frankly, most I see are terrible and will be lucky to have any spine left by the time they are 40. A person that says they can't ride as much drop as they used to is a person that stupidly destroyed their back by riding themselves to ruin with a bad fit.

The best example? The mythical 80-year old Italian man riding drop bars on his Coppi-era Bianchi - smooth but slow and, even at 80, with a fit & position reminiscent of EuroPro.

[etu]

Ok, this is coming from a guy who refers to you as my "biking guru in Boston" when I talk to my friends here in SFBay Area. And as a kindred spirit about technical learning - DON'T BE SO DAMN STUBBORN!
Better to go through the motions, do a little high tech stuff and then give them the real good stuff!
We're not talking about adultery or something that would land you in eternal damnation (if that falls in your belief system).
Of course if you find a place that is in place with your approach, even better!
Good luck. Wish you were coming out to California instead...

[Joachim]

Think about it from the business owner's perspective. Are you walking in with Retul doesn't know range of motion so I believe they are idiots? Or do you offer something that will draw in customers? Not everyone wants soup from the Seinfeld show. once you open your own business in Naples, you can fall into the pedals all you want.

[Ralph]

Don't have a clue about how well the new stuff makes riders better....but do have an idea about how it works for the shop owner.

Probably the most successful bike shop in Central Florida area, (uses almost whole city block for space) recently built a new building just to house the fit "studio", and show their road bikes. They are a Specialized and Cannondale dealership. The "fit" is now sold as part of the bike purchase.

I've know the owner for about 40 years, and he's always supported racers, race teams, and about every charity you can name. Just a great guy. Extremely successful. He rides also.


He's always had a retired racer on his staff to help with bike fit, especially for hi end bikes. And this person was almost always available to help.

However.....with this new fit "studio" of his.....with two guys working full time, You now have to get an appointment in advance, for that fit (the first level fit....$75 is usually available time of purchase....higher level fits appointment only). The "fit" studio has become it's own profit center. Whether we like it or not, bike shop owners have to grow with the times and technology. This bike shop owner gets it...re staying in business. But then....he's been successful for many years. He doesn't see himself as a business that sells bikes......he sees himself as a businessman who sells recreational and transportation products to affluent people....to a certain segment of the population. Being an old guy myself....sometimes it's hard for me to grasp all this.

[OtayBW]

Originally Posted by etu

Ok, this is coming from a guy who refers to you as my "biking guru in Boston" when I talk to my friends here in SFBay Area. And as a kindred spirit about technical learning - DON'T BE SO DAMN STUBBORN!
Better to go through the motions, do a little high tech stuff and then give them the real good stuff!
We're not talking about adultery or something that would land you in eternal damnation (if that falls in your belief system).

That dog won't hunt!

[rugbysecondrow]

A guy asks for some contacts looking for opportunities in a given place, and a bunch of know-it-alls turn the thread into a discussion about the merits of his work.

Welcome to The Paceline.




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[Joachim]

Originally Posted by rugbysecondrow

A guy asks for some contacts looking for opportunities in a given place, and a bunch of know-it-alls turn the thread into a discussion about the merits of his work.

Welcome to The Paceline.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Read the last sentence of his first post. Clearly he alluded to the merits of his work.

[rugbysecondrow]

Originally Posted by Joachim

Read the last sentence of his first post. Clearly he alluded to the merits of his work.

I suppose that is fair game to discuss him changing how he practices his profession.

[Joachim]

Originally Posted by rugbysecondrow

I suppose that is fair game to discuss him changing how he practices his profession.

We see it differently but that's fine. In the end it's all irrelevant what we suggest and think. The 'fit' market in Florida will tell.

[weisan]

why not Austin, TX?