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  #1  
Old 03-28-2017, 03:02 PM
mmik mmik is offline
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Position(s) during bike fit

I noticed most bike fitters will have you sit on the bike with hands on the hoods and arms fully extended. Shouldn't the fit be done in the drops or at least with the elbows bent? Is there a reason why the choose this position? Is this the right way to sit on the bike during fitting even if you almost never ride that way?
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Old 03-28-2017, 04:56 PM
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sparky33 sparky33 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmik View Post
I noticed most bike fitters will have you sit on the bike with hands on the hoods and arms fully extended. Shouldn't the fit be done in the drops or at least with the elbows bent? Is there a reason why the choose this position? Is this the right way to sit on the bike during fitting even if you almost never ride that way?
fwiw fits I've had, the message I got was that riding in the drops shouldn't introduce any bad form, like neck discomfort or bad hip motion, but also that the drop position should be aggressive enough so that it is comfortable only for brief periods of riding long and low... or something like that.

though i suppose drop position doesn't matter for people who never ride in the drops.
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Old 03-28-2017, 08:56 PM
Peter P. Peter P. is offline
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Typically, 70% of riding is done on the hoods. That's not my opinion; I read that somewhere.

Seems to me if that is true, then that's where I'd bias my fitting toward being comfortable in that position.

Of course, sometimes compromises have to be made especially when considering the variety of positions available on the bike. Therefore, I'd check the other positions as well, but I wouldn't put a priority on them.
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Old 03-29-2017, 08:36 AM
fuzzalow fuzzalow is offline
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If the intention and goal is to ride a drop bar sporting bicycle, then setup the bike so that there exists a full facility to ride in the drops.

A racing bike is setup with the zero-position, or base/origin position, as being in the drops. All other subsequent positions flow upwards from the position of riding in the drops. It is the one defining characteristic of a drop bar sporting bicycle that separates it from any garden variety upright handlebar bicycle - do not waste the sporting and power advantages given to a riding position in the drops by not being able to ride in this manner in complete comfort and control.

Set the bike up from the drops. If you cannot ride the drops in 100% ease then the setup on fit & position is not correct or not yet in balance.

Pro fitters? Caveat emptor.
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Old 03-29-2017, 11:55 AM
giordana93 giordana93 is offline
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Originally Posted by fuzzalow View Post
If you cannot ride the drops in 100% ease then the setup on fit & position is not correct or not yet in balance.
+1000

The idea that the drops is aggressive makes no sense. It is also the safest place to have your hands on rough roads or descents. I live in the flatlands now but when I didn't and got behind someone on the hoods going fast downhill or on sketchy patches, I got around them and in front. We had a guy go down 2 months ago on a bumpy section--hands slipped off the tops. Broke his helmet and big gash over eye, broken hip, 6 weeks off bike and could have been worse. We were going maybe 19.
Anyhow, a good fitter can use the hoods no problem and still find a position that allows easy access to the drops if they know what they are doing. They should still check though.
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Old 03-30-2017, 09:52 PM
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Ti Designs Ti Designs is offline
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Learn how to ride...




That's the best I could come up with for the all-inclusive answer. In learning how to ride you also learn how things work out (and they do work out), but that only works if you start with the basics and add the pieces together. The first and most basic part is where the weight is supported. Like anything else you do, it's not supported at your hands - I'm pretty sure you don't walk down the street on your hands. Step one is learning to get your body weight on the pedals. until you can do that it's pointless to talk about where the bars are.
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Old 03-31-2017, 09:18 AM
benb benb is offline
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What Ti Designs said.

I have found a lot of the fitters don't really stress that much about bar position.. if you're having trouble the seat is in the wrong place and you're not supporting your weight on the pedals. (For me cleat position is also critical to getting the weight on the pedals correctly.) If they get that part right for you and recommend the correct size frame for you then you can experiment with bar position yourself. You're not putting much weight on the bars so it comes down to feeling how low you can set the bars and still reach the drops, not have neck issues, etc.. bar adjustments are a lot easier to make precisely than saddle adjustments too IMO.

I unfortunately have plenty of experience with fitters putting me in a position that cause me to not be able to support my weight on the pedals. Not a problem now thankfully.

I like to use my drops a lot so that's how I setup my bars. If I'm riding in a group and I go to the front I ride in the drops. If I'm doing intervals and I do a threshold or higher interval I'll ride in the drops almost all the time, etc.. unless I'm going up a hill. If I'm descending I ride in the drops most of the time. They need to be in a place where you can use them and pedal hard without your torso interfering with your pedal stroke. Pretty straightforward, if you ride really hard in the drops and your lower back starts to fatigue the position might be too low IME. Another sign IMO that something is wrong is if you don't feel comfortable sprinting in the drops. (I know someone is going to post that picture of Cancellara at the finish line sprinting on the hoods now that I said that...)

In terms of neck issues if a fitter puts me too low it would take 2+ hours for my neck to start to hurt, they can't pick that up in a fit session very easily so they have to use good judgement or rely on me to come back and let them know in a follow up, or just rely on me to just raise the bars to correct the neck issue. I have had some fit sessions that went longer than 2 hours but I wouldn't have been riding continuously long enough for my neck to start hurting during the session.
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Old 04-02-2017, 06:37 PM
gregblow gregblow is offline
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great advice. I am going to set up my new bike so the drops are comfortable. They never have been because of too much bar drop. This is the factor I am using to purchase the correct frame size.
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Old 04-03-2017, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by benb View Post
I unfortunately have plenty of experience with fitters putting me in a position that cause me to not be able to support my weight on the pedals.
That's because fit schools don't teach supporting the body weight on the feet. They are somehow afraid of telling anyone how they should ride the bike - that subject is off limits for a fitter (I'm on double secret probation right now). The last fit school (they called themselves a university) I went to was Retul, they teach their students to position riders fore/aft so the knee is +/- 1cm from the pedal spindle. That's KOPS (knee over pedal spindle) with digital accuracy...

I started a thread called "Fitting sucks" which covers this, let's look at bar position and using the drops:

My drops are slightly outside my range of motion, so I almost never use them - and my bike fits. I don't watch the pros race, I'm pretty sure they have better range of motion (or better resistance to injury) than I do, and I'm sure I'm older, so what would make me think that I would use the drops all day? I use the drops for what they should be used for, which is sprinting, cornering hard or getting down a steep hill with turns (lowering my center of gravity). Sprinting is about using points of leverage, control is about lowering my center of gravity - a point which seems to be lost on people who want to spend all day in the drops. To lower my center of gravity, I have to increase the angle at my hip (or let the air out of my tires). Below some point I am outside of my range of motion, so turning the pedals becomes this battle of position between the pedals and my hips, and my hips always lose that one. So, you can either have a position that's truly low, or you can have a position that you can pedal well, but not both. I'm fine with my full usable range of motion being from the tops of my bars out to the ends of my hoods. When we do intervals on the road, my body position is the same as my riders on TT bikes, my hands find their way to the center of the bar in what I call tyrannosaurus rex position. It's a position that works because my body weight is supported at my pedals. I also happen to have less frontal area than I would if I were using the drops...

Talking about a single part in fitting is kinda like talking to a special interest group about a budget - they're never going to look at the whole picture...
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Old 04-14-2017, 12:52 PM
Clean39T Clean39T is offline
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Originally Posted by Ti Designs View Post
That's because fit schools don't teach supporting the body weight on the feet. They are somehow afraid of telling anyone how they should ride the bike - that subject is off limits for a fitter (I'm on double secret probation right now). The last fit school (they called themselves a university) I went to was Retul, they teach their students to position riders fore/aft so the knee is +/- 1cm from the pedal spindle. That's KOPS (knee over pedal spindle) with digital accuracy...



I started a thread called "Fitting sucks" which covers this, let's look at bar position and using the drops:



My drops are slightly outside my range of motion, so I almost never use them - and my bike fits. I don't watch the pros race, I'm pretty sure they have better range of motion (or better resistance to injury) than I do, and I'm sure I'm older, so what would make me think that I would use the drops all day? I use the drops for what they should be used for, which is sprinting, cornering hard or getting down a steep hill with turns (lowering my center of gravity). Sprinting is about using points of leverage, control is about lowering my center of gravity - a point which seems to be lost on people who want to spend all day in the drops. To lower my center of gravity, I have to increase the angle at my hip (or let the air out of my tires). Below some point I am outside of my range of motion, so turning the pedals becomes this battle of position between the pedals and my hips, and my hips always lose that one. So, you can either have a position that's truly low, or you can have a position that you can pedal well, but not both. I'm fine with my full usable range of motion being from the tops of my bars out to the ends of my hoods. When we do intervals on the road, my body position is the same as my riders on TT bikes, my hands find their way to the center of the bar in what I call tyrannosaurus rex position. It's a position that works because my body weight is supported at my pedals. I also happen to have less frontal area than I would if I were using the drops...



Talking about a single part in fitting is kinda like talking to a special interest group about a budget - they're never going to look at the whole picture...

Well reasoned..thanks!


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  #11  
Old 04-18-2017, 10:45 AM
MikeD MikeD is offline
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Position(s) during bike fit

I think a good fit should also check the position on the drops, even though a fit should focus on the primary riding position, which for most is on the hoods. Elbows should be bent slightly. I have some concerns that I don't use my drops much except on downhills and into headwinds. Staying on the hoods is more comfortable. I'm thinking I should raise my bars so I use the drops more. That means my bars should be at least saddle height (now they are ~2 cm below). I'm using compact bars too. I'm just not that flexible.
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  #12  
Old 06-14-2017, 12:10 PM
dnc dnc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ti Designs View Post
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That's the best I could come up with for the all-inclusive answer. In learning how to ride you also learn how things work out (and they do work out), but that only works if you start with the basics and add the pieces together. The first and most basic part is where the weight is supported. Like anything else you do, it's not supported at your hands - I'm pretty sure you don't walk down the street on your hands. Step one is learning to get your body weight on the pedals. until you can do that it's pointless to talk about where the bars are.
Where exactly is your body weight supported as pedals pass through TDC/BDC ?
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  #13  
Old 06-14-2017, 03:05 PM
93KgBike 93KgBike is offline
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Does a shop ride-fit vary greatly with changes in fitness? Or does the fit carry on over a set period to account for fitness changes or is there a std up/down variance implied by a good fitting?

I have always done my own setting up and experimenting, and for better or worse, have enough bikes to see what I thought was comfortable at different BMI's and activity levels.
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Old 06-14-2017, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnc View Post
Where exactly is your body weight supported as pedals pass through TDC/BDC ?
When you run, where is the body weight supported when both feet are off the ground?
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Old 06-16-2017, 06:06 PM
asiantrick asiantrick is offline
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on the hood
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