Our Paceline Forum Vendors...

[William]

Originally Posted by OtayBW

I certainly understand that. That's their decision for their business model. However, while the info is obtainable, it is a barrier for some (like me!). But definitely nice looking stuff...

While I sort of understand that line of thought, if it interests me then sending an email inquiring would just be the next step to getting information. The response or lack there of would tell you a lot on top of getting pricing info. And judging from Eric's rapid responses here I think you would be in good hands if the pricing suits your budget.








William

[eddief]

please

[William]

Originally Posted by eddief

please

Were you my fourth grade teacher???

At least I got it right in my opening post.







William

[FlashUNC]

Check out Rouleur's back issues, couple features on Legend. Really cool setup it seems:

https://owningalegend.wordpress.com/...nd-in-rouleur/

[fiamme red]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Check out Rouleur's back issues, couple features on Legend. Really cool setup it seems:

https://owningalegend.wordpress.com/...nd-in-rouleur/

It appears that the lead time is short:

https://owningalegend.wordpress.com/...ered-by-marco/

"Finally delivery. Legend did not only stay true to the fairly short delivery time (consider some custom-made bikes have a waiting period of over a year!) but Mr. Legend himself delivered it: he and his attentive point-of-contact staff member – Manuel Colombo – drove early in the morning of December 24th from their factory in Northern Italy to Monaco de Baviera (commonly known as Munich, where I was vacationing with my family) to deliver the bike. And yes, after the cup of coffee and very nice chat with the help of Manuel’s translation, they drove back that same day to their families in Italy. And that effort and attention, just tremendously adds to the story behind my bike."

[Burnette]

Two things for me.

First, you have to price things, it is a leading item on the list for most buyers, affluent or not.

It can be done and to say otherwise is wrong. The market is full of custom builders who also build to suit and they too work in a fluctuating currency and materials cost changing world and can give a price for frames if nothing else. I'm not a big of secrecy when buying things and feel this tactic is all very well and good for the seller only, not so for the buyer though. Only divulging pricing information during consultation is an insulation device for the seller to avoid being directly compared to the competition based on the price metric alone. Good for the seller, not for the wise shopper looking for information easily found elsewhere. If the product is good and priced right it will withstand this scrutiny of potential buyers. Value can be a virtue.

One too could get a more expensive priced deal and be none the wiser for who can say if it is high or low compared to the competition and who knows what the guy before you paid? And again, good for the seller as your prices are hidden and can be raised or lowered at will without direct comparison.

I go to about five different cycling forums and one thing I have learned is that the internet will uncover everything eventually. Someone will undoubtedly buy one of these and post up prices and thoughts. Just as well to do it yourself because those who do it for you may not be so kind in the delivery of it.

Second, for each model on the site I see one picture, some of which only show a small section of the frame or just mostly a handle bar and stem. On Facebook I see unfinished frames with just a set of wheels on them, as if there are bare frames there but not many built up. It looks early days in this endeavor with more packed up than packaged. More pictures of all of these bikes fully built would go along way in selling these.

[eddief]

it's in my DNA .

Originally Posted by William

Were you my fourth grade teacher???

At least I got it right in my opening post.







William

[EliteVelo]

Originally Posted by Burnette

Two things for me.

First, you have to price things, it is a leading item on the list for most buyers, affluent or not.

It can be done and to say otherwise is wrong. The market is full of custom builders who also build to suit and they too work in a fluctuating currency and materials cost changing world and can give a price for frames if nothing else. I'm not a big of secrecy when buying things and feel this tactic is all very well and good for the seller only, not so for the buyer though. Only divulging pricing information during consultation is an insulation device for the seller to avoid being directly compared to the competition based on the price metric alone. Good for the seller, not for the wise shopper looking for information easily found elsewhere. If the product is good and priced right it will withstand this scrutiny of potential buyers. Value can be a virtue.

One too could get a more expensive priced deal and be none the wiser for who can say if it is high or low compared to the competition and who knows what the guy before you paid? And again, good for the seller as your prices are hidden and can be raised or lowered at will without direct comparison.

I go to about five different cycling forums and one thing I have learned is that the internet will uncover everything eventually. Someone will undoubtedly buy one of these and post up prices and thoughts. Just as well to do it yourself because those who do it for you may not be so kind in the delivery of it.

Second, for each model on the site I see one picture, some of which only show a small section of the frame or just mostly a handle bar and stem. On Facebook I see unfinished frames with just a set of wheels on them, as if there are bare frames there but not many built up. It looks early days in this endeavor with more packed up than packaged. More pictures of all of these bikes fully built would go along way in selling these.

I appreciate your candor and constructive criticism. I can assure you that I wouldn't have joined a forum if I took it personally. I agree that the internet is a fantastic way to look up pricing and such, but in my defense, a simple email concerning pricing on the model of choice, with options discussed during a consult, is a better way to determine a correct price in my opinion. A simple starting price was not was I was looking to achieve, as most of us would agree that prices typically goes higher when including options.

I also assure you that I am in no way trying to insult anyone or looking to be deceitful to my competition. Being wise to the internet myself, I simply take a total cost in euros including import duty, and match the British Pound. Consistent for everyone. Nothing more, nothing less. Legend frames are for those looking for something different than the off the shelf Treks, Giants, etc. No doubt these are fine bicycles, as are offerings from Shimano and Sram.

These are the only frames I sell and I like to keep it small. Certainly not my day job, as I'm a Pharmacist by trade. Just a business venture I took on to allow someone in the states the option of doing business closer to home than overseas. Is it for profit? Of course, but in no means a get rich scheme. I've raced on a junior pro development team in my early days, and have been around bikes my whole life. My decision to sell Legend was of pure passion and loyalty to his brand, as I've been on most of the other offerings out there.

While my site may seem rudimentary to some, it's just a taste of what is offered.
The bikes you see on Facebook are unfinished examples of what Marco has built for clients waiting to be shipped with their groupset of choice. A small taste of the many color choices available as a custom frame builder.

Thank you, and again I appreciate the candor.

Kindest regards,
Eric

[roguedog]

Another article with some nice closeups of a ti frame.

Eric, I assume you own a frame or have some personal experience with the brand. Can you elaborate on your experience and the bike you have and why you chose Legend versus another brand? Basically, a ride review, please

I think this might also help bring something personal to this post. I hadn't heard of Legend but after googling, it looks like a really cool history with forward thinking innovation in its dna.

Thanks for supporting the forum

[EliteVelo]

Originally Posted by roguedog

Another article with some nice closeups of a ti frame.

Eric, I assume you own a frame or have some personal experience with the brand. Can you elaborate on your experience and the bike you have and why you chose Legend versus another brand? Basically, a ride review, please

I think this might also help bring something personal to this post. I hadn't heard of Legend but after googling, it looks like a really cool history with forward thinking innovation in its dna.

Thanks for supporting the forum

My pleasure, and thanks for the article. While most folks tend to steer towards carbon, the article shows Marco's genuine affinity for Ti.

While I have previously ridden Marco's Ti, I am currently on a carbon frame, and will be having a Titanium frame built for me after holiday in Italy.

My HT9.5 is my favorite, as it an all around dream to ride with no weight limit. It's tube to tube bonding gives it a smooth appearance. With Legend, you won't find fancy shaped tubing and today's current trend. His bikes stand the test of time and still look the part after next years trend yields something different. A good aspect for me being traditional. Perhaps not for some.

In an effort not to sound biased, I find I'm able to manage the horrific PA roads in comfort. The frame is stiff and light enough for the rolling terrain, yet compliant. Legend frames come with an English thread BB which has never let me down, which may add to the stiffness. Being 168lbs, I'm unable to flex the frame. The downhills are my favorite aspect of the bike. It tracks beautifully around twisty roads and feels stable and secure on fast descents. I admit that I love the speed of the downhills, and again, the tube to tube bonds with hand wrapping gives me the confidence and security that the frame won't fail.

I have ridden many frames, each with their own personal attributes. Wheels and tires influence the ride quality as well. No doubt one can choose a frame size at a local bike shop, tweak the stem length, and get a darn close fit. I chose Legend since I like the customization of having a bike built to my exact measurements, while being able to choose color, parts, etc. I have also had the pleasure of riding Bertoletti built frames in the past while racing. He has also built frames for other pros branded with their team's logos.

I hope this offers a little help without coming across as predisposed or influenced. Certainly not my intention.

Thanks again,
Eric

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by EliteVelo

I appreciate your candor and constructive criticism. I can assure you that I wouldn't have joined a forum if I took it personally. I agree that the internet is a fantastic way to look up pricing and such, but in my defense, a simple email concerning pricing on the model of choice, with options discussed during a consult, is a better way to determine a correct price in my opinion. A simple starting price was not was I was looking to achieve, as most of us would agree that prices typically goes higher when including options.

I also assure you that I am in no way trying to insult anyone or looking to be deceitful to my competition. Being wise to the internet myself, I simply take a total cost in euros including import duty, and match the British Pound. Consistent for everyone. Nothing more, nothing less. Legend frames are for those looking for something different than the off the shelf Treks, Giants, etc. No doubt these are fine bicycles, as are offerings from Shimano and Sram.

These are the only frames I sell and I like to keep it small. Certainly not my day job, as I'm a Pharmacist by trade. Just a business venture I took on to allow someone in the states the option of doing business closer to home than overseas. Is it for profit? Of course, but in no means a get rich scheme. I've raced on a junior pro development team in my early days, and have been around bikes my whole life. My decision to sell Legend was of pure passion and loyalty to his brand, as I've been on most of the other offerings out there.

While my site may seem rudimentary to some, it's just a taste of what is offered.
The bikes you see on Facebook are unfinished examples of what Marco has built for clients waiting to be shipped with their groupset of choice. A small taste of the many color choices available as a custom frame builder.

Thank you, and again I appreciate the candor.

Kindest regards,
Eric

Yeah, it was obvious that this was a somewhat small side job in the very early stages. With a market saturated with good product, it's a tough gig for sure. What will make it even tougher is barriers to sale. You want to make it as easy for the end user as possible and pictures and information is 101.

We went through a bit of this with wheel sellers and it crumbles quick as people find a way around any seller if the product could be sourced elsewhere. No offense to you in anyway at all but a better model for Bertoletiti would have been a high end bike shop. To withhold price before consultation from an internet supplier is a hard sell to the casual buyer. If I have to enlist my own shop for fit as part of it why not just deal with them in the first place? And if they could also source the frame I would know price upfront, right away.

From a business standpoint you always ask yourself why would a consumer choose me? What do I offer that they can't get anywhere else and/or what value and service do I provide? If any of these metrics are lacking the smart consumer will work around me to get what they want. That's were the internet comes in, if there's a backdoor, people will go through it.

So there is the frame maker, you, the bike shop and the client. That's four jumps. I would try and be as helpful as possible for just being and in-between guy. Price and pictures would go along way. Again, the bike biz is a tough one and those same shops will hunt your customer too that you brought to their door with deals and services with prices for all to see.

I'll end with a very heartfelt good luck to you in this side experience. It will be interesting to see how it all goes. I have a bit of a nest egg and at times think about what I could do, but the bike market is notorious at making small piles of money out of big ones. Dream big, work hard and limit those liabilities.

[EliteVelo]

Originally Posted by Burnette

Yeah, it was obvious that this was a somewhat small side job in the very early stages. With a market saturated with good product, it's a tough gig for sure. What will make it even tougher is barriers to sale. You want to make it as easy for the end user as possible and pictures and information is 101.

We went through a bit of this with wheel sellers and it crumbles quick as people find a way around any seller if the product could be sourced elsewhere. No offense to you in anyway at all but a better model for Bertoletiti would have been a high end bike shop. To withhold price before consultation from an internet supplier is a hard sell to the casual buyer. If I have to enlist my own shop for fit as part of it why not just deal with them in the first place? And if they could also source the frame I would know price upfront, right away.

From a business standpoint you always ask yourself why would a consumer choose me? What do I offer that they can't get anywhere else and/or what value and service do I provide? If any of these metrics are lacking the smart consumer will work around me to get what they want. That's were the internet comes in, if there's a backdoor, people will go through it.

So there is the frame maker, you, the bike shop and the client. That's four jumps. I would try and be as helpful as possible for just being and in-between guy. Price and pictures would go along way. Again, the bike biz is a tough one and those same shops will hunt your customer too that you brought to their door with deals and services with prices for all to see.

I'll end with a very heartfelt good luck to you in this side experience. It will be interesting to see how it all goes. I have a bit of a nest egg and at times think about what I could do, but the bike market is notorious at making small piles of money out of big ones. Dream big, work hard and limit those liabilities.

Thanks for the dialogue. Good luck to you as well!

[EliteVelo]

1989 is when it all started. Since then, Mr. Bertoletti has designed and developed a series of top of the range customized bike frames for some of Europe’s most famous cycle brands, along with frames for Marco Pantani, and other top professionals, in which Bertoletti frames were labeled with their team's logos. Legend's goal has always been to build the highest quality products using the best possible materials. In 2009 Marco Bertoletti created the new brand ‘LEGEND by Bertoletti’ to express all his experience, passion, and innovation in order to create one of the world’s top leading frames.

[cmbicycles]

Originally Posted by EliteVelo

1989 is when it all started. Since then, Mr. Bertoletti has designed and developed a series of top of the range customized bike frames for some of Europe’s most famous cycle brands, along with frames for Marco Pantani, and other top professionals, in which Bertoletti frames were labeled with their team's logos. Legend's goal has always been to build the highest quality products using the best possible materials. In 2009 Marco Bertoletti created the new brand ‘LEGEND by Bertoletti’ to express all his experience, passion, and innovation in order to create one of the world’s top leading frames.

I'm curious, what is the tank he is standing in front of for? I almost thought heat treating furnace til I saw the tubes and wires inside. Purge tank for welding?

[EliteVelo]

Originally Posted by cmbicycles

I'm curious, what is the tank he is standing in front of for? I almost thought heat treating furnace til I saw the tubes and wires inside. Purge tank for welding?

They use a chamber that is filled with argon gas for welding the frames because oxygen contamination becomes a concern since titanium oxides may weaken a welded joint. The welds inside the chamber allow for ones strong enough to be smooth filed by hand. There are no beads like other makers, just smooth filed joints that make his frames appear to look as if they are composite. It's a time consuming process, but one to admire in my opinion.

Thanks for looking!