Builder's Spotlight The Paceline Forum Builder's Spotlight


Go Back   The Paceline Forum > Bike Fit

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-12-2017, 05:57 PM
Splash Splash is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,014
Optimzed Firing Muscle Patterns for Bike Fit

The attached link outlines why it is important to focus on Optimised Firing Muscle Patterns during bike fits (instead of aiming for temporary absolute power gains) to maximise functional sustainable threshold power.- from a body set-up in a biomechanically neutral and balanced position.

http://fitwerx.com/why-power-based-b...g-doesnt-work/

I am really keen to understand how these muscle firing patterns are measured and what criteria is used to determine this body position referred to above?

Also, what is the optimal sequence of muscle firing pattern?


Splash
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-13-2017, 11:11 PM
11.4 11.4 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,772
It's a very complicated model. Part of training is to detrain spurious or counterproductive muscle firings. The actual measurements are complicated by the fact that you may only use certain portions of a muscle, or a low percentage of fibers, so measurement becomes challenging. Electrical testing and muscular power output aren't the same, so you may have high electrical potentials but not much power involved and you have to differentiate those as well. And above all, pedaling is a complex action involving a lot of muscles in what ideally is a highly trained coordination. Just measuring electrical potential doesn't get you very far and can be quite misleading, and says nothing about the efficiency of your pedal stroke. Additionally, I don't know any researcher who can characterize specific muscle discharge levels or myoelectric potentials as optimal or not -- does a tight hamstring work for you or against you, does it increase contraction strength, and on and on. Lastly, fitting is an evolutionary thing -- your ideal fit will change as you adapt to prior changes and train to accommodate changes -- so one fit doesn't necessarily do that much anyway. It's just one step along the way.

What you really want to measure is whether you can ride consistently faster and in more comfort after a training change-up. Many alterations can require months of adaptation before they're effective and on all of them it's irrelevant unless it develops speed and optionally comfort. You certainly can't go into a fitting and come out consistently faster unless you were really badly fitted previously.

I do tend to agree that power-based fitting has limitations, as just mentioned above. But I also don't think there's a specific evaluation protocol -- power, electrical, fiber exhaustion, whatever. Frankly, for the very best trainers and fitters, it's about making a change and seeing how you adapt to it. There's no instant change and no guarantee anything will work. Make a change, adapt to it, test it, make another change, adapt to it, test it. You simply need to be able to isolate your changes so you know only one thing is changing at a time, and then test to see whether it improved your riding. With a client I would simply want comfort level to remain roughly the same, or to diminish only if it's understood to be necessary for a particular high-output mode (such as a time trial, track power events, etc.). So my focus is primarily on speed. Speed isn't winning, but keep detailed records of times on certain hills, time trial courses, track workouts, whatever. You'll see the changes.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-14-2017, 04:57 AM
Splash Splash is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,014
Really interesting response 11.4. Much appreciate the effort!

Interesting that your focus is speed as a primary metric. Many riders put power before speed as a form of output measure.

Splash
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-14-2017, 10:25 AM
MattTuck's Avatar
MattTuck MattTuck is offline
Classics Fan
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hanover, NH
Posts: 10,171
Having had 3 fits with fitwerx, I'm not sure I'd recommend them to someone else.

Quote:
We often build positions that we know are biomechanically neutral, balanced and safe, but may initially result in the rider losing a little power. Why? The power will come back (and then someā€¦) in the future once the muscles develop and balance out. If a higher heart rate based power number steers you away from a position change that your body would have adapted over time, you are simply chasing existing muscle dominance.
This presupposes that muscles will eventually develop and balance out... which I do not think is a given.
__________________
Cold, gold and bloody.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-14-2017, 05:42 PM
11.4 11.4 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash View Post
Really interesting response 11.4. Much appreciate the effort!

Interesting that your focus is speed as a primary metric. Many riders put power before speed as a form of output measure.

Splash
Power doesn't mean anything in cycling unless it improves your riding ... which for nearly everybody means faster.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-14-2017, 06:37 PM
Mzilliox Mzilliox is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Southern OR
Posts: 2,759
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11.4 View Post
Power doesn't mean anything in cycling unless it improves your riding ... which for nearly everybody means faster.
good point, and 2 similarly built riders can have diff power numbers, and he lower power number guy can be faster ive found. power is good when you have it
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.