lengthening reach on a hardtail - how to do it?

[d_douglas]

So sounds stupid, but here is my query:

I have a Chromag Rootdown (an all mountain 29er hardtail) that I have owned for two years. I first used a rigid post and switched to a Specialized Command Post dropper, which made me a convert to droppers. I recently switched out the dropper to a Fox (and reused the Specialized on my FS bike) and now find that the difference between the setback of the Specialized and the straight Fox dropper is cramping my top tube.

I see three options:

1) longer stem. Guys at Chromag said 70mm is the longest stem that should be used on an MTB of
This type - I defied them and use an 80mm. a 90-100mm would get me back to where the reach was before, but it is clearly not recommended for an all mountain hardtail.

2) new dropper with setback: I don't know of any except the Specialized and it comes in 30.9 - not 31.6mm. I used my old one with a shim and broke the shim, hence my choice to just go with a 31.6mm model.

3) new saddle with longer rails: I have a vintage WTB that I love, but the rails might be a bit short on it. If I get on with longer rails, I can slide it back further, but that would end up leaving me with a saddle with a lot of stress on it if I come down hard on the back of the saddle. which saddles out there have longish rails?

Are there other things to consider? Of the three options above, which is the best? Cheap is the order of the day, as my MTB budget is tapped.

[Dave B]

Honestly, try the longer stem. Seems to be a very low cost experiment and if you feel better on the bike, sweet. Don't worry about what "should" be there if it works for you.

If you find a longer stem to alter the goal of your riding then you know a set back seat post or longer railed saddle.

Best of luck.

[mgm777]

Following this discussion with interest. Just curious, why does the shop warn you not to exceed 80mm for a MTB stem?

[JAGI410]

4) Wider bars

[sandyrs]

KS makes a couple setback models, the eTen and the Dropzone. I know nothing at all about either beyond that they exist. http://kssuspension.com/shop/seatposts/

You could try a longer stem first since it's cheaper and only get a new dropper if you don't like the handling.

[d_douglas]

I knew I would get flack for that comment. The guys at Chromag are very cool and dedicated riders. My contact there said, obviously, 'ride whatever works', but he half-jokingly said that no properly designed MTB should use a stem longer than 70mm. He felt that a longer stem defeats the purpose of the slack angles and long travel of the fork (140mm). He knows my height and said to try a 50mm and see what I thought, but there was no way that would work.

I am a road rider at heart, so I am used to stretching out a bit, whereas Chromag guys tend to ride their MTBs more as oversized BMX bikes. I inquired about an XL frame originally and he said that this size was essentially designed for giants, which I am not. Anyhoo, they know bikes inside out, so I trust their judgement, but don't feel that it works for me.

Even as it was set up before, it felt small riding on a groomed trail or with my kids, but once I pitched it downhill, the sizing made sense. Maybe it would still make sense - I dunno. I should try it super short and see how it feels?

[d_douglas]

Originally Posted by JAGI410

4) Wider bars

yes, my MTB buddy says this as well, but 730mm seems plenty wide to me. He suggested an 800mm bar, but I would be clipping trees with the bar then (as my bike handling skills are challenged!)

[colker]

Originally Posted by JAGI410

4) Wider bars

bigger frame.

[Erik_A]

Wider bars (already mentioned). Also lowering your bar position with fewer spacers (or flipping the stem down) will lengthen the reach.

You could move the seat back, but that may change your best "femur position" for seated pedaling. Also doesn't help the reach while standing.

Input the bike geometry into this website to try different stem lengths and heights etc: http://www.bikegeo.net/

[sandyrs]

Originally Posted by Erik_A

Wider bars (already mentioned). Also lowering your bar position with fewer spacers (or flipping the stem down) will lengthen the reach.

You could move the seat back, but that may change your best "femur position" for seated pedaling. Also doesn't help the reach while standing.

Input the bike geometry into this website to try different stem lengths and heights etc: http://www.bikegeo.net/

OP was running a setback post (so presumably a farther-back saddle) originally. The whole point of this post is trying to replicate that position now that he has lost the setback post in favor of a straight one. So moving the saddle back would simply return OP to a position he knows he likes on this bike.

[cachagua]

I'd shy away from getting a new stem right away.

First thing, your seat position should put you in the right place above your cranks. If you were in the right place before, and the new post has put you out of that position, then getting back to it would be desirable, using a saddle with longer rails or a different post, as you said.

Then your stem length drops right out of that. If it was right when you were sitting in the right place, it'll still be right when you go back to that place, and if it needs correction from there, then you'll be correcting based on the right starting point. It should be the length that yields the greatest comfort and riding efficiency for YOU, not some arbitrary number that some unofficial representative of the Marketing Department pulls out of their, uh, head.

A short stem is the current fashion. Hemlines go up and down, stems get longer and shorter, but in both those cases the reason why is: so the manufacturers can make money. The reason is emphatically NOT so that you can fit your bike better. So take the limits people quote with a few shovelfuls of salt.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Originally Posted by cachagua

A short stem is the current fashion. Hemlines go up and down, stems get longer and shorter, but in both those cases the reason why is: so the manufacturers can make money. The reason is emphatically NOT so that you can fit your bike better. So take the limits people quote with a few shovelfuls of salt.

Short stems are not used for aesthetic reasons. It's my understanding that MTB geometry is a whole heck of a lot different than it used to be.

[Mikej]

Shorter stems increase the steering quickness on a slack HTA (which is slower)- Longer stems slow it down. you'll BE FINE with a 100 on a 69.5 HTA. I rode a 120 and my son rode a 120 on 69.5 / 51mm rake. Also, part of the short stem sell point is because the top tubes have become longer.

[sandyrs]

Originally Posted by Mikej

Shorter stems increase the steering quickness on a slack HTA (which is slower)- Longer stems slow it down. you'll BE FINE with a 100 on a 69.5 HTA. I rode a 120 and my son rode a 120 on 69.5 / 51mm rake. Also, part of the short stem sell point is because the top tubes have become longer.

Good point, a 100mm stem on a 69 degree HTA is very different from a 100mm stem on a 65 degree.

My point still stands that if OP liked his original position and setup, though, there are ways to go back to it.

[Fatty]

KS eTen post has some setback. I think.