OT: VW cheating emissions on TDI vehicles

[cinema]

I wonder if the resulting computer code to bypass emission testing was the result of a significant increase in environmental standards that are unsustainable for diesel. i literally have no idea and am not a diesel guy or even a car guy.

To that extent, how sustainable are they for regular gasoline cars? are other manufacturers doing the same thing to skirt unrealistic regulations? I'm as pinko commie as they come but am always wary of unrealistic regulation (often fueled by partisan infighting). it not only affects large business but we the peeps who live among them. headline today was dow plunges over 200 points with fears over VW debocle. how this actually reasonably relates to thousands of different publicly traded companies in every industry is beyond me but my 401k doesn't care about reason.

[GScot]

I bought a 2014 with a manual last year and love it. In the camp of fix it and move on. If the fix makes the car suck then I'll be upset.

What I'm dying to know is just how big their balls were in skirting emissions so long. I'll rate that upon finding out if there is a cheaply deployed in the field fix that brings everything into compliance such as a software update and maybe a simple mechanical update like a additional/bigger/etc catalyst. Or if it is an ordeal that requires extensive mechanical mods.

[Ken Robb]

Originally Posted by GScot

I bought a 2014 with a manual last year and love it. In the camp of fix it and move on. If the fix makes the car suck then I'll be upset.

What I'm dying to know is just how big their balls were in skirting emissions so long. I'll rate that upon finding out if there is a cheaply deployed in the field fix that brings everything into compliance such as a software update and maybe a simple mechanical update like a additional/bigger/etc catalyst. Or if it is an ordeal that requires extensive mechanical mods.

If VW could easily fix the emissions problem without adversely affecting economy and/or performance they would have done that from the start rather than develop the cheater program. They could have used urea injection like BMW and Mercedes did. They chose to save the cost of those systems and gain the sales advantage of telling potential buyers that they would not face the added bother and expense of buying/adding urea fluid to a VW. Major STUPID decision.

[zap]

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

If VW could easily fix the emissions problem without adversely affecting economy and/or performance they would have done that from the start rather than develop the cheater program. They could have used urea injection like BMW and Mercedes did. They chose to save the cost of those systems and gain the sales advantage of telling potential buyers that they would not face the added bother and expense of buying/adding urea fluid to a VW. Major STUPID decision.

'15 Golf TDI does have urea injection.

http://www.tflcar.com/2014/08/does-t...essors-review/

[GScot]

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

If VW could easily fix the emissions problem without adversely affecting economy and/or performance they would have done that from the start rather than develop the cheater program. They could have used urea injection like BMW and Mercedes did. They chose to save the cost of those systems and gain the sales advantage of telling potential buyers that they would not face the added bother and expense of buying/adding urea fluid to a VW. Major STUPID decision.

Certainly what it looks like and that means they had the nerve to think it could never bite them in the ass down the road. If they have an easily installed by dealer quick fix that doesn't require butchering the car I'll figure that was a contingency plan.

[druptight]

Originally Posted by alessandro

This is a wild story about regulatory authority, but mainly about chance:

It Took E.P.A. Pressure to Get VW to Admit Fault
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/22/bu...mit-fault.html

Here's the interesting part for me - I've read a lot of people claiming that even though it was 40x above regulatory standards, our TDI's are still belching out way less crap than most cars on the road. This quote seems to refute that:

In the lab, the two VWs performed flawlessly. But when they were taken out on the roads in California, they were belching out levels of nitrogen oxide that were 30 to 40 times higher than the regulatory standards. Even the heavy-duty trucks the researchers had tested had never performed that poorly by comparison.

[jghall]

Not read all 17 pages, so apologies if already linked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0BR...ature=youtu.be

[verticaldoug]

http://www.theicct.org/sites/default...al_may2014.pdf

This is the research report presented by West Virginia which kicked off the problem.

Page 38 has the set-up for testing.

Apologies if this has already been posted by 17 pages is a lot to page. We should just get a masochistic viewall option.

[pff]

Originally Posted by GScot

I bought a 2014 with a manual last year and love it. In the camp of fix it and move on. If the fix makes the car suck then I'll be upset.

Fix it and move on? Presumably it's impossible to fix, or they would have fixed it in the first place. This wasn't a mistake or an oversight, this was obviously intentional. And even if they could wave a magic wand to fix emissions without making the car perform worse, the damage to the environment and public health over the last ten years is not reversible. The most likely outcome seems to be the company pays a big fine, hurting the shareholders but leaving the execs' golden parachute intact. We really need to see some jail time for the execs behind this if we don't want this kind of corporate malfeasance to be discouraged. I'm also a bit disappointed that the standards bodies designed a test that was so easy to defeat.

[ofcounsel]

Nevermind

[93legendti]

Originally Posted by cinema

I wonder if the resulting computer code to bypass emission testing was the result of a significant increase in environmental standards that are unsustainable for diesel. i literally have no idea and am not a diesel guy or even a car guy.

To that extent, how sustainable are they for regular gasoline cars? are other manufacturers doing the same thing to skirt unrealistic regulations? I'm as pinko commie as they come but am always wary of unrealistic regulation (often fueled by partisan infighting). it not only affects large business but we the peeps who live among them. headline today was dow plunges over 200 points with fears over VW debocle. how this actually reasonably relates to thousands of different publicly traded companies in every industry is beyond me but my 401k doesn't care about reason.

Good point...

So some would argue we need bigger govt and more laws to monitor and enforce the unrealistic goals set by politicians pandering to their base...fascinating...

[christian]

Originally Posted by druptight

Here's the interesting part for me - I've read a lot of people claiming that even though it was 40x above regulatory standards, our TDI's are still belching out way less crap than most cars on the road. This quote seems to refute that:

Yes, that's objectively false.

[christian]

Originally Posted by cinema

I wonder if the resulting computer code to bypass emission testing was the result of a significant increase in environmental standards that are unsustainable for diesel. i literally have no idea and am not a diesel guy or even a car guy.

Originally Posted by 93legendti

Good point...

So some would argue we need bigger govt and more laws to monitor and enforce the unrealistic goals set by politicians pandering to their base...fascinating...

It's not a good point. The cars pass the emission test when their exhaust plumbing is engaged. Ergo, it's possible for the cars to meet the emission requirements. You are engaged in strawman arguments, and it's clear you have little to no understanding of diesel emissions or emission standards.

[ftf]

Originally Posted by christian

It's not a good point. The cars pass the emission test when their exhaust plumbing is engaged. Ergo, it's possible for the cars to meet the emission requirements. You are engaged in strawman arguments, and it's clear you have little to no understanding of diesel emissions or emission standards.

Heck even heavy duty trucks are belching out fewer emissions than the 4 cylinder in these VWs.

[93legendti]

Originally Posted by christian

It's not a good point. The cars pass the emission test when their exhaust plumbing is engaged. Ergo, it's possible for the cars to meet the emission requirements. You are engaged in strawman arguments, and it's clear you have little to no understanding of diesel emissions or emission standards.

Oh? You don't say.


Do you feel better now?