How much of an LBS premium are you willing to pay?

[Cicli]

I was in Madison yesterday and decided to check out a local shop. The guy greeted me when I walked in and asked what I was looking for. My reply, nothing in particular. I was visiting from out of town and just doing a bit of shopping after work. He informed me that he had alot more inventory than was out on the floor. Cool. I looked around and found a dusty Campy cable kit. Into the basket it went. Asked him if he happened to have any old quill stems, he laughed. Ok, how about some leather bar tape, nope. Ok, some nice tires. He said Gatorskins were the best. I asked about some Vittorias or Veloflex. Nope.
He asked me about my bike. Steel with Campy. He recomended a carbon frame with sram. No kidding. He said Campy quit trying at 11 speed and sram was the way to go. Steel was old and heavy.
I put my stuff back and ordered a cable kit online from the car.
I will never be back there.
Why cant they sell me what I want instead of what they think I need? Holy smokes.

[SoCalSteve]

Originally Posted by beeatnik

D, I respect your style.

Could never play it the way you do because as a former shop rat, I came to the sad conclusion that there are no friends in business (or was that love and war?). That said my LBS does about 10 full builds a year for me at half the going local labor rate and I refer at least one person a month to them. I think I bought one chain and a water bottle there in 2015.

That said the relationship above can't be described as all business. I get a great price, sure, but I'm mainly buying piece of mind. I know they won't rip me off. I know I can bring a frame and parts in at noon on a Friday and the bike will be ready by Friday evening. They like me and I like them as our relationship is transparent. Now, there's a nearby shop which carries the clothing line with which I'm intimately involved. I'll never bring a frame and parts to them (their wrench is the most knowledgeable in the area). See, if I brought them my bika then the relationship would become personal (as my expectations are rigid) and that would probably ruin the business relationship. Wacky, I know.

Oh, to answer the OP's question, a 20% premium is qoo for coffee, tubes, rim tape, cheap sunglasses, socks and headset spacers

Which 2 bikes shops are you speaking of?

Thanks!

[peanutgallery]

News flash

1. Unles you know how to wrench, you pay retail...and labor

2. Why would a bike shop bother to stock a higher end quill stem? Stone age junque

3. If you walk in the door of the lbs, don't forget your wallet. Its a business not a community service thing for MAMILS

Rant over

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Tihsepa

I was in Madison yesterday and decided to check out a local shop. The guy greeted me when I walked in and asked what I was looking for. My reply, nothing in particular. I was visiting from out of town and just doing a bit of shopping after work. He informed me that he had alot more inventory than was out on the floor. Cool. I looked around and found a dusty Campy cable kit. Into the basket it went. Asked him if he happened to have any old quill stems, he laughed. Ok, how about some leather bar tape, nope. Ok, some nice tires. He said Gatorskins were the best. I asked about some Vittorias or Veloflex. Nope.
He asked me about my bike. Steel with Campy. He recomended a carbon frame with sram. No kidding. He said Campy quit trying at 11 speed and sram was the way to go. Steel was old and heavy.
I put my stuff back and ordered a cable kit online from the car.
I will never be back there.
Why cant they sell me what I want instead of what they think I need? Holy smokes.

This was his mistake..after asking about your rig then slamming it. Of course, if you had said, 'a cervelo with sram' in my shop, I would have helped you out...the DOOR.

Cash flow, Inventory control and personnel management..the 3 biggies. Hard to stock stuff for everybody but ya don't dis a guy's rig..If the knucklehead would have just said, 'nice rig'..he would have made a sale.

[OtayBW]

^ Point taken. I can think of so many times, however, when I come into a shop, enter into a brief chit chat with the owner, and there is absolutely no discussion or seemingly any interest in what I ride, how I ride, where I ride, etc. If you can't talk bikes in a bike shop, I'm usually not long for that shop....

[Formulasaab]

Responses here seem to fall largely into three clearly divided camps...

• I don't see the point of bike shops anymore. Thus, 0%.
• I had a bad experience at a bike shop. Thus, 0%.
• My bike shop kicks all other bike shops' asses. Thus, whatever%.

There is of course plenty of fine variation in each, plus the oldpotatoe/TiDesigns exception of "I am the bike shop", but as generalizations go I don't think I'm very far off base. The OP clearly has a decent relationship with the bike shop. Lucky guy. I'm glad to be in the same camp.

Here's a couple things I don't see the point of...

"Brick and mortar... Sad reality..."
It is a sad reality that I am dying, but I don't stop eating, riding, or smiling. Not until my ACTUAL dying day, and maybe not even then.

"The mechanic didn't read my mind correctly about what I wanted him to sell me. No soup for him!"
Two things we all understand:

1. Many/most bike shop employees must wear the dual hats of mechanic and salesperson.
2. Humans have strengths and weakesses.

So, which do you value more in a bike shop mechanic; strong technical mechanic skills or strong salesman tactics? I know my answer.

Give them something to work with before deciding they haven't produced what you want. Tell them who you are and what you like and are interested in. They might say "Sorry, but we don't really have that kind of thing here. Maybe try that shop downtown?". Or they might say "Gotcha, I see what you are putting down. C'mere my man, look what I got."

[Climb01742]

Originally Posted by peanutgallery

News flash

1. Unles you know how to wrench, you pay retail...and labor

(SNIPPED)

3. If you walk in the door of the lbs, don't forget your wallet. Its a business not a community service thing for MAMILS

Rant over

That's not how capitalism works. Alternatives spring up. Like:

There's a mechanic near me who got tired of LBS environments and now works out of their home. Their service rates, because of no overhead, are lower than any local shop. And is 100% cool with me bringing my own parts bought online. Finally, will adjust anything they installed free for a month after installing it. Here is a mechanic and business that has completely adjusted to a new reality.

My challenge is, my pal the mechanic works at a shop and I'd like to support him. That was the challenge that prompted me to start this thread in the first place. Trying to figure out how much that desire to support my friend is worth? I'm happy to pay a premium (it's my choice, after all) but how much of a premium makes business sense today? I don't think I'm alone in having non-LBS options. People see shops charging full retail as a business opportunity.

LBS have every right to run their shops as they wish. But in an online retail world, not trying to find some middle ground seems like a poor business decision. To your point #3, that is a business destined to go out of business.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Climb01742

That's not how capitalism works. Alternatives spring up. Like:

There's a mechanic near me who got tired of LBS environments and now works out of their home. Their service rates, because of no overhead, are lower than any local shop. And is 100% cool with me bringing my own parts bought online. Finally, will adjust anything they installed free for a month after installing it. Here is a mechanic and business that has completely adjusted to a new reality.

My challenge is, my pal the mechanic works at a shop and I'd like to support him. That was the challenge that prompted me to start this thread in the first place. Trying to figure out how much that desire to support my friend is worth? I'm happy to pay a premium (it's my choice, after all) but how much of a premium makes business sense today? I don't think I'm alone in having non-LBS options. People see shops charging full retail as a business opportunity.

LBS have every right to run their shops as they wish. But in an online retail world, not trying to find some middle ground seems like a poor business decision. To your point #3, that is a business destined to go out of business.

-Where/how does he get parts? Most distributors won't sell to garage operations.

-service ONLY oriented places are common models that came from car repair places. Still viable. My biz model when starting Vecchio's was this.

http://www.hoshimotors.net/

Or Pinson-US iron only repair.

I've always said I would love to fix it, don't want to 'sell' it.

[Climb01742]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

-Where/how does he get parts? Most distributors won't sell to garage operations.

-service ONLY oriented places are common models that came from car repair places. Still viable. My biz model when starting Vecchio's was this.

http://www.hoshimotors.net/

Or Pinson-US iron only repair.

I've always said I would love to fix it, don't want to 'sell' it.

Peter,

I don't know the nature of their relationship to distributors (never asked) but any part I've needed, they've been able to get. They tend to take longer to arrive because the mechanic groups orders from a few customers to save on shipping but that's totally cool because it results in lower prices. One instance I do know of was there was an issue with a Chris King headset I had and the mechanic worked directly with them and it was resolved quickly and flawlessly, so their model seems to work well.

The key issue is, in my mind, this: where is the value add? You always understood this, I think. Your shop worked because you focused on the value add. Your wrenching. Your Campy knowledge. Your test ride bikes. Your wheelbuilding. Knowing your niche(s) and delivering. Customers will pay for value-add. But many shops don't add much value.

A great mechanic is a huge value-add, IMO. As an illustration of putting my money where my mouth is, I ordered a 6800 group through my pal the mechanic and his shop. It was $721 plus $300 labor to install. I'm thinking of upgrading another frame to 11S. Do I go the same route or get the group from Eurobikeparts for $599? Is it worth 20% (721 vs 599) to support my pal? What if there was an option of bringing my own group but paying another $50 or $60 over the $300 in service to compensate for non-store bought parts? I'd save and my pal/shop would profit too. This feels like a mutually beneficial hybrid model.

Or I could take the group to the independent mechanic and save even more because their service price is below $300 for installing a group...and my pal and his shop gets nothing.

I'm going to talk to my pal this weekend to kick around some ideas. There has to be a model that acknowledges the online retail reality yet works for both customers and shops. Customers will always find a solution. Will shops?

[tuscanyswe]

300 for a new group install? Is that about the going rate? Surprisingly high

[Climb01742]

Originally Posted by tuscanyswe

300 for a new group install? Is that about the going rate? Surprisingly high

I don't know. I didn't haggle.

[ripvanrando]

So, I called three local, large bike shops today looking for 28 mm Conti GP4000s ii clinchers. Nada. Same deal with 26 mm Specialized. Tried to get tubes with removable valve stems. Nada. These are probably the most common clinchers out there. One shop actually asked why I needed removable stems.

I try to give my money away to local bike shops but it is getting hard to do.

I feel bad for them.

[beeatnik]

Originally Posted by SoCalSteve

Which 2 bikes shops are you speaking of?

Thanks!

Jones Bicycles II in San Marino on Huntington Blvd.

Cycle de Pro in Sierra Madre
https://www.instagram.com/cycledepro/

Check em out next time you're in the SGV!

[GregL]

One common theme throughout this thread: we, the Paceline community, are for the most part connoisseurs. We have specific needs/desires for our bikes and components that are not always met by smaller, mainstream LBSs. Expecting smaller LBSs to inventory high dollar items that only sell in small quantities is not, IMO, reasonable. You can't make money when your inventory is gathering dust on a shelf.

I do agree with the sentiment that many LBSs are not as knowledgeable as the general population of this forum. It can be frustrating to have an LBS rep try to sell you something you really don't want because they don't understand your perspective.

For my part, I try to purchase mainstream maintenance items from my LBS. Tubes, chain lube, grease, etc... They place a weekly QBP order, so I'll also order small parts through them when needed. Shoes are another item that I like to purchase locally to ensure a good fit. Otherwise, I purchase most large items on the used market and perform all necessary wrenching myself.

- Greg

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by tuscanyswe

300 for a new group install? Is that about the going rate? Surprisingly high

I did a 'pro' build with a wheel build for $250, $200 w/o wheel build, subtract $50 if bought stuff from me.