OT: Anyone wrenching on their own vintage Porsche?

[Ken Robb]

Originally Posted by p nut

I will say, given the option to get a car today, I'd just get an FT86 (or BRZ) and have a blast with it. They're more practical than a Miata or S2000, and super fun to drive. And I wouldn't worry about the "perks" of a car club. Perhaps having a car club is nice for certain discounts and network with people with same cars (BMWCCA, PSA, etc.), but anyone can sign up for track days. And auto-x is open to anyone as well.

"Track days" are fine for drivers who already learned to drive on track with QUALIFIED instructors. Just going to track days without good instruction is akin to picking up a set of clubs and hacking around a golf course to learn to play. In San Diego BMWCCA welcomes non-BMWs to fill classes/grids at auto-cross and driving schools when all spaces are not filled with BMWs but ALL drivers must join BMWCCA.

San Diego PCA (it may apply to all chapters) requires membership in the club and ONLY Porsches can participate in any driving activity.

[fuzzalow]

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

"Track days" are fine for drivers who already learned to drive on track with QUALIFIED instructors. Just going to track days without good instruction is akin to picking up a set of clubs and hacking around a golf course to learn to play. In San Diego BMWCCA welcomes non-BMWs to fill classes/grids at auto-cross and driving schools when all spaces are not filled with BMWs but ALL drivers must join BMWCCA.

San Diego PCA (it may apply to all chapters) requires membership in the club and ONLY Porsches can participate in any driving activity.

Thanks Ken Robb for clarifying and extending the knowledge. Yeah, anybody that thinks they can just get on a track and drive - check first to see if you can get anybody to also be on the track at the same time as you. Nobody wants to run next to some dinghead who doesn't know what he's doin' on the track. NO insurance covers damage done for track activity. HONOR and ETIQUETTE demands participants in track activities NOT sue each other for damages if they happen via contact or a shunt on the track.

I wouldn't touch a open casting call track event run by somebody.

In PCA, nobody drives solo on the track until they have been signed off to do so. Until that time, every PCA drives with an instructor.

Metro PCA always runs Porsches only (but no P-SUVs) at the tracks except for sometimes opening up to include BMWCCA BMWs at Lime Rock, which was done as a courtesy. Track time is expensive and most car clubs don't have the money or the long standing relationships with the tracks as does PCA, especially the larger chapters like Metro.

[Ken Robb]

At a BMWCCA driving school we had an "A" student t-bone an instructor who was in a sweeper when Mr. "A" over-drove his brakes and went straight into the instructor's M3. I was asked to give the foul-up a check-ride and decide whether he should be allowed to drive any more. I rated him as a low B driver at best. How did he get in the A group? He was an organizer of track days for profit and had driven at many track days but had had little to no formal training for driving on a track.

[p nut]

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

"Track days" are fine for drivers who already learned to drive on track with QUALIFIED instructors. Just going to track days without good instruction is akin to picking up a set of clubs and hacking around a golf course to learn to play. In San Diego BMWCCA welcomes non-BMWs to fill classes/grids at auto-cross and driving schools when all spaces are not filled with BMWs but ALL drivers must join BMWCCA.

San Diego PCA (it may apply to all chapters) requires membership in the club and ONLY Porsches can participate in any driving activity.

I would have thought that would be an assumed prequalifier, but yes, you're right. There are many car clubs that anyone can join and can be helpful for beginners. Even if you don't have a track near you, find an auto-x event. Lots of willing experienced drivers there willing to lend a hand.

[staggerwing]

I'm one of those guys that always lusted after an air-cooled 911. By the time I could afford one, the prices went through the roof, and I just couldn't bring myself to that much into a 30 yo car, knowing there was always the possibility of some very expensive maintenance just around the corner.

Ended up looking at NB and NC Miata's, M convertibles, and AP2 S2000's. Ended up with a 2006 S2000, and 3 years later, couldn't be happier.

FWIW, the 1999-2003 S200s are AP1's, and have a 2.0l motor, which redlines at 9000RPM, The 2004-2009 cars are AP2's, with a 2.2l motor, which redlines at only 8200RPM. Both mills make 237hp, although the 2.2 has a little more torque. Both engines don't come alive until 6000RPM, and VTEC kicks in. The AP1 is a bit "edgier" from a handling standpoint. Both are Jekyll/Hyde cars, whereby if you keep the revs low, it is going to act like a Civic, but keep your foot in the throttle, and you have a street legal race car.

Hold out, and spend more for a lower mileage, "stock" example. They hit low enough price points a few years back that many have been poorly modded and trashed. I don't think they will ever appreciate like the air-cooled 911, but good examples are ticking up a bit.

[earlfoss]

Across the hall there's a good thread on Porsches that can help inform anyone interested in Porsching up.

[uber]

The last of the air cooled 911's (993) had an inherent flaw in the intake manifold. Carbon would collect and eventually necessitate a top engine rebuild. So if that is the vintage of interest, make sure that job has already been done. The last of the normally aspirated 991.1 is just a magic engine. The price point is obviously much higher than the air cooled, but it does not require 12 quarts of oil per change, it won't overheat in traffic necessitating pulling off the road and turning off the engine, etc. The 996 was supposed to be the first water cooled and least loved (best value) with more interest in the newer 997.

[Climb01742]

If I ever did buy another Porsche, I honestly think it'd be a Cayman. The size is more akin to how 911s were in the day. And one lasting take-away from owning both a 914 and 911s is...mid-engine is really where engines should be.

[Ken Robb]

Originally Posted by p nut

I would have thought that would be an assumed prequalifier, but yes, you're right. There are many car clubs that anyone can join and can be helpful for beginners. Even if you don't have a track near you, find an auto-x event. Lots of willing experienced drivers there willing to lend a hand.

There are track days with no club affiliation at all. A person rents the track, does some publicity activities, and sells admission to all comers. They may/may not have an ambulance and medical staff on hand. They may/may not have qualified corner workers.

[paredown]

Originally Posted by Climb01742

If I ever did buy another Porsche, I honestly think it'd be a Cayman. The size is more akin to how 911s were in the day. And one lasting take-away from owning both a 914 and 911s is...mid-engine is really where engines should be.

I happened to be at the Frankfurt Auto Show when they first showed the Cayman. One of my favorite memories of Germany was everyone stepping back a little while some 14 year old got to sit in the driver's seat with that look on his face, and the rest of us smiling in delight at his absolute joy in discovering a cool car...
I too think the Cayman is a nice answer.

[dr50470]

I've been fortunate enough to own a 1983 944 delivered to me at the factory as well as a 1987 cabriolet purchased with 4000 miles on the clock. The 944 has seen at least 50 track days in it's lifetime and with a few suspension mods was able to out handle most cars out there. It's now making it's second journey around my family members and at 135,000 miles has required NO engine work! But, alas it's not a 911....aah the sound of an air cooled Porsche is heavenly, and oh yeah fun to drive.

[zap]

Originally Posted by Climb01742

If I ever did buy another Porsche, I honestly think it'd be a Cayman. The size is more akin to how 911s were in the day. And one lasting take-away from owning both a 914 and 911s is...mid-engine is really where engines should be.

The GT4 model is the best performing road going Porsche to date. Alas, prices for slightly used is above msrp.

[Ken Robb]

BTW, while regular auto insurance no longer covers accidents at on-track events you can buy agreed-value policies for individual events from specialty insurance carriers.

When I started instructing at driving schools around 1988 BMWCCA was very careful to prevent ANY timing official or unofficial because that prevented insurers from considering an event "competition" rather than "education". We had several cars wrecked (I was a passenger in two of them) and the owners' regular insurance covered them. At one rollover at Firebird Raceway in AZ. the tow truck driver offered to tow the wreck out onto the highway so the owner could claim it had been a road incident. The owner declined and USAA paid off with no problem because they deemed the event to be "education". This was about 1994 when driving schools on tracks were rare and run quite strictly.

[texbike]

Originally Posted by uber

The last of the air cooled 911's (993) had an inherent flaw in the intake manifold. Carbon would collect and eventually necessitate a top engine rebuild. So if that is the vintage of interest, make sure that job has already been done. The last of the normally aspirated 991.1 is just a magic engine. The price point is obviously much higher than the air cooled, but it does not require 12 quarts of oil per change, it won't overheat in traffic necessitating pulling off the road and turning off the engine, etc. The 996 was supposed to be the first water cooled and least loved (best value) with more interest in the newer 997.

It seems that EVERY generation of 911 has at least one major engineering flaw that can cause major/expensive repairs. The original 911s had chain tensioner issues, 74-77 G series (mid-years) had a habit of pulling their headstuds out of the engine cases and overheating, SCs (78-83) had head stud and tensioner issues, 3.2 Carreras (84-89) had head stud, valve guide, and connecting rod issues, 964s (89-94) had engine sealing and engine management issues, 993s (95-98 and last of the air-cooled cars) had engine management issues, 996s (99-2004 and the 1st of the water-cooled cars) had several issues that would crater the motor (RMS/IMS, AOS, d-chunking, connecting rods, and more), 997s (2005-2012) had many of the same issues as the 996s until 2009 when the 997.2 was released. The later 997.2s and the most recent 991 have issues as well, but I'm not as familiar with them.

Now granted, it was only a small percentage of the overall population of these cars that were actually affected by these issues. However, unless the issues were proactively addressed and corrected, you just didn't know if you were going to experience them or not. In the immortal words of Dirty Harry, "Do you feel lucky punk"?

Originally Posted by Climb01742

If I ever did buy another Porsche, I honestly think it'd be a Cayman. The size is more akin to how 911s were in the day. And one lasting take-away from owning both a 914 and 911s is...mid-engine is really where engines should be.

Caymans are great cars and incredible drivers. I drove a 2008 S several weeks ago. It would eat my 3.2 for lunch! That particular S is for sale locally, has a unique color combo, and is listed for a very reasonable price. However, the potential issues of the 987.1s and the cost of ownership compared to my 3.2 Carrera is keeping me away from it.

Texbike