Looking for advice re: unresponsive framebuilder

[weisan]

Please DO NOT attack the OP or make things any harder on that person. Do not put OP on a guilt trip either. He or she is NOT responsible for you or your friend losing your pants on any framebuilder who do not honor the contract.

Do your own research and due diligence before you commit. That's your responsibility.

This whole focus on "outting the name" and if you don't, all of the sudden you become public enemy no. 1 and you are doing a great disservice to the community is bull.

Measure your response.

Check your own heart.

David Kirk is David Kirk before he became David Kirk the framebuilder. The way he runs his business reflects his character, personal philosophy, the principles and values that he abide by. It has absolutely nothing to do with frame building.

As I have said before many times in the past, someone is an a-hole way before they put on a Lycra short and jersey or put a leg over a bike. Nothing will change that. They came as they were. Their conduct on the bike is a reflection of who they are, has nothing to do with cycling.

The OP reserves the final say on who or what to divulge.

And lastly, those of us who have lived long enough have gone through "dark times" in our life. We know what it's like to hit rock bottom.
Bad things happens. Leave a crack in the door, let a bit of light in, give someone some hope or the opportunity to recover. Don't shut that door. If you do, it might not be opened to you when it's your turn.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by weisan

Please DO NOT attack the OP or make things any harder on that person. Do not put OP on a guilt trip either. He or she is NOT responsible for you or your friend losing your pants on any framebuilder who do not honor the contract.

Do your own research and due diligence before you commit. That's your responsibility.

This whole focus on "outting the name" and if you don't, all of the sudden you become public enemy no. 1 and you are doing a great disservice to the community is bull.

Measure your response.

Check your own heart.

David Kirk is David Kirk before he became David Kirk the framebuilder. The way he runs his business reflects his character, personal philosophy, the principles and values that he abide by. It has absolutely nothing to do with frame building.

As I have said before many times in the past, someone is an a-hole way before they put on a Lycra short and jersey or put a leg over a bike. Nothing will change that. They came as they were. Their conduct on the bike is a reflection of who they are, has nothing to do with cycling.

The OP reserves the final say on who or what to divulge.

And lastly, those of us who have lived long enough have gone through "dark times" in our life. We know what it's like to hit rock bottom.
Bad things happens. Leave a crack in the door, let a bit of light in, give someone some hope or the opportunity to recover. Don't shut that door. If you do, it might not be opened to you when it's your turn.

Well said, this IS about a bicycle frame afterall..not being snubbed on a liver donor list or something.

[firerescuefin]

Originally Posted by weisan

Please DO NOT attack the OP or make things any harder on that person. Do not put OP on a guilt trip either. He or she is NOT responsible for you or your friend losing your pants on any framebuilder who do not honor the contract.

Do your own research and due diligence before you commit. That's your responsibility.

This whole focus on "outting the name" and if you don't, all of the sudden you become public enemy no. 1 and you are doing a great disservice to the community is bull.

Measure your response.

Check your own heart.

David Kirk is David Kirk before he became David Kirk the framebuilder. The way he runs his business reflects his character, personal philosophy, the principles and values that he abide by. It has absolutely nothing to do with frame building.

As I have said before many times in the past, someone is an a-hole way before they put on a Lycra short and jersey or put a leg over a bike. Nothing will change that. They came as they were. Their conduct on the bike is a reflection of who they are, has nothing to do with cycling.

The OP reserves the final say on who or what to divulge.

And lastly, those of us who have lived long enough have gone through "dark times" in our life. We know what it's like to hit rock bottom.
Bad things happens. Leave a crack in the door, let a bit of light in, give someone some hope or the opportunity to recover. Don't shut that door. If you do, it might not be opened to you when it's your turn.

My heart is fine. I harbor no issue with the OP, nor doubt her story, nor want anything else but a full resolution. But these threads are what they are. People that start them aren't looking for advice, but are using it as a last resort/leverage play against the builder (with the implied threat that I'm going to drop your name in here at some point and it will be cached forever)...and then 13 pages later, a community of people of people that are into bikes are frustrated because they've played the game (and been played somewhat). After watching this play out for about the 10th time since I joined in 2010, it all seems a bit overdone/tired.

I hope Whatwolf is able to use this thread for leverage....as it was always intended to be.

[Joachim]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Well said, this IS about a bicycle frame afterall..not being snubbed on a liver donor list or something.

Yes, there are worse things, but framebuilders like this have no place being a professional framebuilder. Especially if they take 'my' hard earned money and do not do their job. Peter P and I both had issues with Maietta, but I was not part of that special offer that led to a number of people waiting forever. Good thing he stopped building frames for compensation since this small niche area can do without that type of person.

[fuzzalow]

There is no duty or obligation to the OP to reveal who the builder is in this tale.

In fairness, this in its entirety is a one-sided sordid tale from a client whom seeks advice where there is really none to be had. Thus page upon page of angst with no result other than perhaps catharsis. That's OK, this forum can be a supportive community to that end also.

I hope the situation gets resolved to the OP's satisfaction.

[djg21]

Originally Posted by Northmeadow

If you used a credit card for the deposit you might be able to get your money back from them. I too was scammed out of half the price of a frame by a now non existent builder, who refused to refund my deposit. Luckily I checked with the credit company and they made good on it.

Of all the advice given in this thread, this is the most pertinent to prospective purchasers of relatively big-ticket items. If you use a credit card for payment, the credit card company affords you with buyer protection and can charge back the amount of any payment made to a non-performing vendor. If a frame builder cannot take a credit card payment, maybe think twice about doing business with that builder.

At this point, the OP should worry about herself, and the bloodlust here really is too much. Leave it alone. If the OP cannot resolve her situation, it's up to her to determine whether the builder should be "outed."

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by whatwolf

So, hold your horses, as it were. I want to see if I can get all my stuff and money back beforehand. I personally won't be gaining anything by naming him and I don't think anyone is losing anything by me delaying doing so. Except those of you who are impatient and are getting worked up.

with this said i'm closing this one, i think we've gone far enough.

whatwolf - if you want this re-opened when you have any new information you want to share with us, PM me and i can open it back up.