Twisted road rage: cyclist beats motorist

[rustychisel]

Originally Posted by jimmy-moots

Something about eye for eye... whole world... losing vision...

With that said, I don't think this will be a popular view...

But after spending many years on the road on a bike, I can certainly sympathize with anyone who's lost their temper after a hit or near-miss and done something dumb/illegal.

Sh*t happens.

Not saying it's right, not saying it's wrong. Sh*t just happens.

The presence of dashcams, mobile cameras, etc motivates me to keep my own temper in check. Seen quite a few cyclists 'outed' online via Facebook for doing the wrong thing thanks to technology.

OT: There was a good case down here where a cyclist* pinched a motorist's keys after an altercation... the driver was apparently scared of the cyclist so he took a photo of the cyclist* (but didn't wind up his window or lock car door?)... got posted on the local police department's Facebook page... nek minute, cyclist* in a bit of trouble.

*He was wearing a sleeveless jersey and ankle socks so I actually think he was a triathlete.

They deleted the FB post but news article is here: http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/s...-1226784957554

I can sympathise, but no, I don't condone violence ever, by anyone.

I recall that case of stolen keys, don't think they ever identified the cyclist concerned, did they?

[jimoots]

Originally Posted by rustychisel

I can sympathise, but no, I don't condone violence ever, by anyone.

I recall that case of stolen keys, don't think they ever identified the cyclist concerned, did they?

Don't get me wrong. Acting out on the roads is the wrong thing to do. I can't and won't defend it. We have police for a reason. I can see how it happens is all.

SA Police seemed to indicate they had a lead on the cyclist due to the FB post. Link here.

[ultraman6970]

One thing for sure, that driver wont dare to touch a cyclist never again.

Sad the cyclist over reacted tho... ok... kick his butt (literally) but knock him down is way too much.

[johnny_flapjack]

Originally Posted by ultraman6970

One thing for sure, that driver wont dare to touch a cyclist again ever again.

Sad the cyclist over reacted tho... ok... kick his butt (literally) but knock him down is way too much.

Yup. Let's hire that guy to beat the ···· out of everyone who drives a car and then all cyclists will be safe. I like where your head's at.

[benitosan1972]

The cyclist did what I only fantasize about doing whenever I have a run in/altercation/close-call/near-death experience with a car/driver. But I could never translate it into real-life actions cuz I'm civilized, sane, controlled, and pretty wimpy.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Gummee

On one hand: good! Bastard probably had it coming.

If you have to argue whether or not your mirror hit someone, it probably did.

On the other: bad. More ammo for the 'anti-cycling' crowd.

M

Deserves to die?

'Crowds' on both sides...too many cyclists would watch and applaud the guy getting beaten to death...

Just shows there is a lot of friction between car drivers and people on bikes. Neither side are 'giving an inch'!!!!

[Gummee]

I've been dealing with idiots (like the driver in the OP) for 20+ years.

Being continually threatened with bodily harm by cars/trucks may very well have me doing something similar to the OP one of these days. I'm not a violent person, but sometimes enough is enough.

Having said that, I tend to ride in a way that tries to minimize the opportunities for people to squeeze me or hit me with their mirror(s).

M

[bluesea]

How did the driver find himself outside of his vehicle? If he did so of his own free will, then one of his lessons here pertains to escalation.

[Admiral Ackbar]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Deserves to die?

'Crowds' on both sides...too many cyclists would watch and applaud the guy getting beaten to death...

Just shows there is a lot of friction between car drivers and people on bikes. Neither side are 'giving an inch'!!!!

i don't see anyone saying he deserved to die..... thats a bit of stretch there bud

[LegendRider]

I know Jeff Smock - we rode together in Atlanta for a number of years. He's an intense, high-achieving guy, but I saw no indications that he was capable of this type of behavior.

A friend of mine spoke with him and here's his brief report slightly edited for clarity:

The guy hit Smock with his rearview mirror. He didn't stop. Smock chased him down. The guy got out of the car and attacked Smock. There are supposedly witnesses that saw this. Once the guy came out Smock wrestled him to the ground and the guy hit his head. Smock then got a few shots in. Not exactly great reporting.

[Mr. Pink]

If I ever survived an altercation with some a h*** in a car that actually stopped and approached me in some manner instead of driving away, (that had to happen here, right? How does a motorist get dragged out of a car by a cyclist and beaten otherwise?) I would make it a priority to grab the keys, therefore disabling the lethal weapon in his or her hands that could be used against me. Survival skills, you know? I'd probably just call the police, or drop them off with a local officer.

And I'll bet Look cleats would be quite a weapon to use against that aggro person coming towards me. Just sayin'.

[William]

Escalation is certainly an issue. And the driver of the vehicle obviously did get out of his vehicle. But, the cyclist didn’t leave the scence either. In the eyes of the law, both parties could likely have avoided the confrontation. There are still a lot of actions/facts that are unknown at this point so it’s going to be speculation on our parts right now. The article stated that they were arguing about whether or not the drivers mirror hit the cyclists bike (probably the handlebars). If they were arguing that means no one was likely hurt in the incident. They probably got into the classic Monkey Dance that escalated to a physical confrontation. Regardless of who shoved/punched/struck who, the cyclist got the upper hand. In the eyes of the law, they are already both in the wrong (if both could have reasonably avoided the confrontation). If it was “self defense” on the part of the cyclist, at the point the driver had stopped fighting, was down and not moving/unconscious, the cyclist should have stopped. The threat was nullified. To continue beating the person (with a weapon of some sort as described by witnesses) after they were no longer a threat is taking it beyond a “self-defense” claim.

I have no problem “Going to town” if someone is threatening me and I have no other options. But I also realize that there is another world of legalities, attorneys, courts, and judges likely waiting on the other end of any kind of physical confrontation. You only do what you need to do to nullify the threat, then shut your mouth, let the law handle the rest when they arrive (and call your attorny). Taking it beyond just stopping the threat, as it appears in this case, leaves the door open for all kinds of legal and financial hurt to follow.

It’s a tough line to walk, but you need to understand that before anything happens.



Edit: Seeing LegendRiders Post...

I know Jeff Smock - we rode together in Atlanta for a number of years. He's an intense, high-achieving guy, but I saw no indications that he was capable of this type of behavior.




A friend of mine spoke with him and here's his brief report slightly edited for clarity:




The guy hit Smock with his rearview mirror. He didn't stop. Smock chased him down. The guy got out of the car and attacked Smock. There are supposedly witnesses that saw this. Once the guy came out Smock wrestled him to the ground and the guy hit his head. Smock then got a few shots in. Not exactly great reporting.

If this account is correct, it's the "chased him down part" (depending on what that entails) that could possibly get him into trouble. The response of LE and the drivers attorneys is likely going to be he should have reported it, not "chase him down".






William

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Admiral Ackbar

i don't see anyone saying he deserved to die..... thats a bit of stretch there bud

Hey 'bud' the report said one person said the guy 'may die' from his beatings

A poster said he 'probably had it coming'....1+1


"An altercation ensued, and Smock "inflicted such severe injuries on the driver of the vehicle that the driver ended up being transported to the hospital," Dunkel said. "We had witnesses concerned that the person might die."

[Mr. Pink]

I had a moment once in NYC that was very educational. I was on Riverside drive, and some a h*** in a minivan brushed me aside to get around a stopped car turning left. Didn't go down, but, I was pissed. Caught up to him enough to get the plate, but not to smash his drivers side window or something, whatever I was imagining in my rage. Found the closest precinct, and reported this incident to the desk cop.

"Are you hurt?"......."well, no, I'm OK, I guess".

"Is your bike damaged?" ......No, it's OK.

He stared at me for a few moments as only a NYC cop can, waiting for the result.

"Oh, OK, I get it. Sorry for the bother." and walked away in good health and got on with my day.

It could have been much worse.

[William]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

I had a moment once in NYC that was very educational. I was on Riverside drive, and some a h*** in a minivan brushed me aside to get around a stopped car turning left. Didn't go down, but, I was pissed. Caught up to him enough to get the plate, but not to smash his drivers side window or something, whatever I was imagining in my rage. Found the closest precinct, and reported this incident to the desk cop.

"Are you hurt?"......."well, no, I'm OK, I guess".

"Is your bike damaged?" ......No, it's OK.

He stared at me for a few moments as only a NYC cop can, waiting for the result.

"Oh, OK, I get it. Sorry for the bother." and walked away in good health and got on with my day.

It could have been much worse.

Yeah, I'm sure there are going to be varying levels of response depending on where you live, and certainly pertaining to whether you were hurt/had damages or not.








William