For Wheelbuilders question, sapim washers..

[ultraman6970]

Ok guys I have a question... Im going to built a low spoke wheel, got small size sapim nipple washers just to be cautious, my issue is that the darn washers dont fit in the f... hole Are tad wider, besides trying to fold them a little bit or using a dremel or in the rim or at the washer to make them fit... any other trick you guys have under the sleeve???

Tried to increase the folding (curvature) of one of the washers but the shape where the nipple sits gets like weird.

Any advice?

Thanks.

[wallymann]

i thought washers were intended for the j-bend end of the spoke, to take up slack @ the spoke-hole.

a-la:


edit: looks like sapim also offers something for the nipple end!

[11.4]

You're talking about the oval washers that go under the nipple, inside the rim? (There are also washers that go against the head of the spoke at the hub flange.)

Those are only intended for traditional box-section rims where there's a flat surface for the relatively flat washers to bear against. I'm guessing you have something v-shaped or some kind of deep section rim? Forget about using those washers. And frankly, they are bulky, heavy, and don't work all that well. They won't do much to save your wheel if the wheel isn't solid without them.

[ultraman6970]

THanks... I tried to dremel them but dont worth my time... yeah v shape...Oh well looks like they will stay in my box of spokes related things for a while then

[ergott]

What rims?

DT makes a smaller PHR washer that they supply with some of their rims like the 511 and 411.

Zipp uses washers in their rims too.

[ultraman6970]

Kinlin tb25, the hole is like 1 or 2 mm bigger than a spoke nipple Put the wheel together w/o the nipples, the thickness of the wall at the spoke is like 3 mm, is thick.

[ergott]

Those are very sturdy rims.

[11.4]

Echoing Eric and my prior post in this thread, you don't need washers with those rims. Cockroaches will be extinct and the sun will have dimmed and those rims will still be rolling along. You're good to go.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by 11.4

You're talking about the oval washers that go under the nipple, inside the rim? (There are also washers that go against the head of the spoke at the hub flange.)

Those are only intended for traditional box-section rims where there's a flat surface for the relatively flat washers to bear against. I'm guessing you have something v-shaped or some kind of deep section rim? Forget about using those washers. And frankly, they are bulky, heavy, and don't work all that well. They won't do much to save your wheel if the wheel isn't solid without them.

BUT required for DT411/511....for the op...I have spare DT nipple washers...they will probably fit into the hole.

[11.4]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

BUT required for DT411/511....for the op...I have spare DT nipple washers...they will probably fit into the hole.

Correct. There are certain rims that require special washers. Mavic CXP-30's also come to mind. But those washers come with the rims (or don't, if you are buying an out of production rim and someone already lost them). Washers, like ferrules, were an attempt to deal with crappy metallurgy and even worse extrusion technologies on rims a long time ago. Plus people wanted the rims to be so light that they made the wall thickness so thin it wouldn't survive, and then heat treated it to make it brittle to boot.

[cogclog]

Originally Posted by 11.4

Correct. There are certain rims that require special washers. Mavic CXP-30's also come to mind. But those washers come with the rims (or don't, if you are buying an out of production rim and someone already lost them). Washers, like ferrules, were an attempt to deal with crappy metallurgy and even worse extrusion technologies on rims a long time ago. Plus people wanted the rims to be so light that they made the wall thickness so thin it wouldn't survive, and then heat treated it to make it brittle to boot.

There are several carbon rim manufacturers (zipp, schmolke, knight) who require you use nipple washers (usually Sapim Q-lets) and although they can be a major pain in the a$$ to install, my experience has been that they make evening out the tension a much faster process. And the q-lets are quite small so don't add too much weight. Not saying they are a perfect solution, but from a builder's perspective washers do have a benefit.


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[ultraman6970]

I have used those oval washers in rims that I knew I could have troubles with like for example araya aero tubular rims, those I believe use a tiny insert which obviously is not available anywhere so had to improvise and those washers made everything super easy.

I have used them in used wheels where I knew tension was going to be a problem (tension all over the place), just old rims, and they did what they suppose to do. So as i said before since the idea was to get a low count spokes wheel I wanted to play safe.