Builder's Spotlight The Paceline Forum Builder's Spotlight


Go Back   The Paceline Forum > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-02-2017, 01:16 PM
rousseau rousseau is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Southwestern Ontario, Canuckland
Posts: 112
Bar tilt conundrum

I go through periods where I can't stop fiddling with my bar tilt. This is one of them. Does anybody get it perfectly right?


When it's like this I feel pretty comfortable on the hoods when I'm seated, where I spend 85% of the time, but when climbing or pushing out of the saddle my hands feel way too high. Like I'm on stilts, or a kid's scooter. I don't feel "tight" with the bike. Plus the drops aren't horizontal enough, so I need to arch my hands upward.


This is way better for climbing out of the saddle, I feel more in control of the steering. And it's a dream in the drops. But on the hoods when seated I'm not quite as comfortable as in the first scenario above. Feels like reaching and bending the wrist so that the forearms and hands don't form a straight line.

What do people do?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-02-2017, 01:31 PM
eBAUMANN's Avatar
eBAUMANN eBAUMANN is offline
Ride Metal
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: QUINCY, MA (02169)
Posts: 7,789
first pic.
or get bars with a better bend...
__________________
Imshi Cycles --- Instagram
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-02-2017, 01:33 PM
simonov simonov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
What do people do?
Use different bars. Those may just not be the right shape for your preferred hood vs. drop vs. tilt positions. I like traditional drop bars for that deeper, level drops with the ability to mount the hoods higher. But that's just my preference.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-02-2017, 01:40 PM
Mzilliox Mzilliox is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Southern OR
Posts: 2,759
you need new bars i think based on what you are saying and wanting. id recommend a classic bend with flat drops that you can run parallel to the ground. this will help get you lower in the hoods and drops. alternatively get a stem with more angle to it which will lower your tops some, getting you a bit lower on the bike. i personally hate that shape of bar with the "ergo" shape, my hands never wnat to be in the ergo spots, always tween. i much prefer a classic bend or a nice short and shallow modern compact.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-02-2017, 01:46 PM
eBAUMANN's Avatar
eBAUMANN eBAUMANN is offline
Ride Metal
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: QUINCY, MA (02169)
Posts: 7,789
personally, i find traditional bend drops to be the most uncomfortable things ever with modern shifters.

you cant reach the levers from the flat spot in the drops (which put your hands behind the axle - which makes the bikes handling awful) and the bars bend down into the levers, creating an uncomfortable hand-wrist position when riding on the tops.

traditional bend bars were from a time when technology was limited, when they could only bend bars in radial/circular shapes...it was the best that could be done at the time...and that time has past.
fine, put em on your 6-8spd vintage roadie, but there are far more comfortable shapes these days that work much better with modern levers.

just my 2c
__________________
Imshi Cycles --- Instagram
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-02-2017, 02:01 PM
ColonelJLloyd ColonelJLloyd is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Louisville
Posts: 3,479
I agree with the other comments. It doesn't sound like that particular bar is going to give you what you're after regardless of tilt. You could tweak the first photo position by moving the levers down the bar 7-10mm and see if that gets you closer to where you want to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eBAUMANN View Post
personally, i find traditional bend drops to be the most uncomfortable things ever with modern shifters.

you cant reach the levers from the flat spot in the drops (which put your hands behind the axle - which makes the bikes handling awful) and the bars bend down into the levers, creating an uncomfortable hand-wrist position when riding on the tops.

traditional bend bars were from a time when technology was limited, when they could only bend bars in radial/circular shapes...it was the best that could be done at the time...and that time has past.
fine, put em on your 6-8spd vintage roadie, but there are far more comfortable shapes these days that work much better with modern levers.

just my 2c
Hmm. Yeah, this is definitely not my experience. But, maybe you could clarify or give an example of the bar you're talking about. If you mean Cinelli 65 I can see some of your points, though that kind of bend is pretty much what you see in official Campy photos with modern Ergos so go figure.

I've tried several modern bars with all sorts of integrated levers and keep coming back to a parallel top/drop design (I use Compass Maes or VO Course). I'm using 11s hydro levers and they play super well with that bend for my use. Also, I have never felt that any hand position on these bars has negatively affected the handling of a bike that was otherwise "good".

One consideration that is true with integrated levers and bars like I use with much longer reach is a stem length change, but that is really just an exercise in basic math. Again, I don't experience bad handling from the tops, drops or anywhere else.

All that said, I have never been a person who spends the majority of my time on the hoods or anywhere else. I seem to move my hands quite a bit.

Last edited by ColonelJLloyd; 08-02-2017 at 02:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-02-2017, 02:02 PM
benb benb is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,914
So your first picture looks better on the hoods but bad for the drops.

I like to have the levers vertical.. move them too far up from there and it seems like it hurts your ability to brake in the drops.

There are a lot of variables.. bar shape, how high you put the hoods on the bar, how you rotate the hoods in/out, and then all the rest of the bike fit elements.

It is possible some of this discomfort is due to something else wrong with the fit. Reach, etc.. maybe you're putting too much weight on your hands.

I have Zipp bars on both my bikes, they seem to work really well with modern shifters in terms of getting the hoods+drops right.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-02-2017, 02:05 PM
rousseau rousseau is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Southwestern Ontario, Canuckland
Posts: 112
Well, I do like the ergo shape that I have there, but then again, seems like a lot of people these days are using bars with shallower drops.

I actually do have a stem with a 17-degree drop/rise, but the one time I tried it it seemed too low. If I used it with the tilt of the first pic I think it would be even worse in the drops, wouldn't it?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-02-2017, 02:17 PM
zap zap is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,529
Bars in the second picture. Looks like the bar ends are pointed to rear brakes.

The levers appear to be a little low. Use a straight edge that's lined up with the bottom of the bar end. The bottom of the brake lever should be a few mm above the straight edge. If you have the right bend bar, the tops of the hoods should be flat or rising slightly back to front.....better for your wrists.

For Record 11 shifters, I could not deal with Zipp bars so I switched to Thomson Road Bars. Perfect for me.

Last edited by zap; 08-02-2017 at 02:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-02-2017, 02:23 PM
David Kirk's Avatar
David Kirk David Kirk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Bozeman MT
Posts: 6,561
I agree with Mr. Zap - the levers are too low on the bars. I'd put a straight edge on the bottom of the bar and set the lower tip of the lever 5-10 mm above that.

After that I'd set those bars aside and pick up a Deda bar which I personally find to have the best modern bend to work with modern levers. With the levers set right (as noted above) the tops, hoods and drops will all work well for most riders.

dave
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-02-2017, 02:27 PM
Mzilliox Mzilliox is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Southern OR
Posts: 2,759
Quote:
Originally Posted by eBAUMANN View Post
personally, i find traditional bend drops to be the most uncomfortable things ever with modern shifters.

you cant reach the levers from the flat spot in the drops (which put your hands behind the axle - which makes the bikes handling awful) and the bars bend down into the levers, creating an uncomfortable hand-wrist position when riding on the tops.

traditional bend bars were from a time when technology was limited, when they could only bend bars in radial/circular shapes...it was the best that could be done at the time...and that time has past.
fine, put em on your 6-8spd vintage roadie, but there are far more comfortable shapes these days that work much better with modern levers.

just my 2c
My experience is certainly different than yours, and has yielded different results for certain! but i do think some of the modern bars do have superior shapes to play with modern levers. just not Zipps.
[IMG]car show by Matt.zilliox, on Flickr[/IMG]
this for example is the first time ive been able to reach my brake levers from the drops without effort. levers set up literally even with drops (old school), Campagnolo 11sp hoods (i used 10s levers on same bars prior and worked great!), drops nearly level. the spot on the hoods has a lovely nook that my hands just love to rest in without expending any effort to hold the bar, they just stick in there. steering is great from the hoods, or from the drops, and i spend more time in the drops on this setup than i ever have on any bike in the past, surely a sign of increasing flexibility, but also a sign of the right bars on the bike.

just something to think about.

id also be tempted to run the bars like they are in the second picture, but move the hoods up a touch on the bars. this could give you plenty of the drops, but get you the right way on the top too?

Good luck

Last edited by Mzilliox; 08-02-2017 at 02:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-02-2017, 02:42 PM
eBAUMANN's Avatar
eBAUMANN eBAUMANN is offline
Ride Metal
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: QUINCY, MA (02169)
Posts: 7,789
i think maybe hand size has something to do with this...as my hands do not fit into the front lower part of a traditional bend drop (where they need to be to grab levers) AT ALL...i can do it, but it is very VERY uncomfortable.

personally, i like the tops of my bars to transition perfectly into the brake lever hood, FLAT...like, no downward bend and THEN the lever...bar extends out from the stem, bends forward and straight to lever hood, THEN bends downward.

example:



i find that a bend like the one shown above allows me to
- keep my hands in a more comfortable forward position when in the drops
- easy access to levers
- maintains similar handling characteristics (to riding on the hoods) during hard efforts

i know this is a highly personal thing, again, just my 2c.
__________________
Imshi Cycles --- Instagram

Last edited by eBAUMANN; 08-02-2017 at 02:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-02-2017, 02:52 PM
merckx merckx is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,783
I have re-loved the Model 65. I had these mounted when I was racing in the Carter/Regan era. I have enjoyed getting reacquainted with them. Probably not what you were looking for...........
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 65 II.jpg (66.4 KB, 320 views)
File Type: jpg 65 III.jpg (59.0 KB, 320 views)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-02-2017, 02:52 PM
benb benb is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,914
Quote:
Originally Posted by eBAUMANN View Post
i think maybe hand size has something to do with this...as my hands do not fit into the front lower part of a traditional bend drop (where they need to be to grab levers) AT ALL...i can do it, but it is very VERY uncomfortable.

personally, i like the tops of my bars to transition perfectly into the brake lever hood, FLAT...like, no downward bend and THEN the lever...bar extends out from the stem, bends forward and straight to lever hood, THEN bends downward.
Well said.. if you have large hands the modern setup is a ton better. I wear 2XL gloves, I can just barely palm a basketball on a good day. I would actually love longer hoods so I could get all my fingers around the hood. I typically have to have my ring finger and pinky "extended" and my index/middle finger wrapped around the bar and/or lever because my whole hand doesn't fit on the hood... it's terrible ergonomically.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-02-2017, 02:59 PM
Matthew Matthew is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Muskegon, Michigan
Posts: 1,390
Your first pic is how I position mine. I rotated all of my road bars up just a bit this spring. Made all of my bikes feel just a bit better fit wise.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.