OT: VW cheating emissions on TDI vehicles

[alancw3]

i am curious. so how are you guys getting your diesel cars emissions inspected in states that required it?

[Cat3roadracer]

Business as usual in New York.

[grawk]

Originally Posted by alancw3

i am curious. so how are you guys getting your diesel cars emissions inspected in states that required it?

There's still no open recall, and the cars pass the current inspection regime in all 50 states. That's kinda the issue.

[Cat3roadracer]

Originally Posted by shovelhd

2009-2014

Why then are they not selling 2015 TDI's? Looking at Cars.com there's loads of them out there.

[bcroslin]

Originally Posted by Cat3roadracer

Why then are they not selling 2015 TDI's? Looking at Cars.com there's loads of them out there.

I believe the 2015's have issues as well but maybe not as bad as the earlier engines? It's probably time to wade back into the VW Vortex forum to see if anyone over there has any answers.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by grawk

If I'm required to sell my car, the only way I'm doing it is if they give me what I'd get for a lemon law buyback. Full purchase price.

But the Pennsylvania Lemon Law only applies for the 1st year or 12,000 miles. If the car is older and/or has more mileage, buying back at full purchase price is not justified.

[buldogge]

My wife is completely "over" her TDi Sportwagen now, and has been looking at 13/14 328xiT (I know that's not the new stupid name) and X3s...completely different beasts from the VW...but...she's ready for a change.

As a BMW fan, this pleases me.

It was just pointed out to me that the 2014+ no longer include "free maintenance".

Now we're stuck waiting for the VW issue to "resolve itself" or selling it now on the used market...Anyone want a "loaded" 2011 white on black 6MT Sportwagen with ~73k on it...???

-Mark in St. Louis

Originally Posted by bcroslin

I was just getting used to not having any car payments but if VW hands me a big enough check I'll take it. My wife has always wanted a 3 series so maybe she'll get her wish.

[grawk]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

But the Pennsylvania Lemon Law only applies for the 1st year or 12,000 miles. If the car is older and/or has more mileage, buying back at full purchase price is not justified.

Pennsylvania Lemon Law only applies if the problem starts in the first year or 12000 miles. This problem started at 1 mile. If they want my car, they can give me what I paid for it. Given that I did nothing wrong, the only way I can be made whole if they take my car is to give me what I paid for it.

[druptight]

Originally Posted by grawk

Pennsylvania Lemon Law only applies if the problem starts in the first year or 12000 miles. This problem started at 1 mile. If they want my car, they can give me what I paid for it. Given that I did nothing wrong, the only way I can be made whole if they take my car is to give me what I paid for it.

I sincerely doubt there's any chance they'll give anyone what they paid for it. I think the toyota model mentioned above seems fair. We got our X years out of the car getting good (or better) gas mileage as described to us. They defrauded us with respect to the emissions and they'll pay the government dearly for that. If they pay us Pre-Scandal blue book plus 25% for our trouble (plus what they already gave us in their "goodwill" package) I'd call that fair, IMO of course. I've got a 2010 JSW TDI that I bought used in March 2014.

[akelman]

Originally Posted by druptight

If they pay us Pre-Scandal blue book plus 25% for our trouble (plus what they already gave us in their "goodwill" package) I'd call that fair...

For my part, I'll dance a jig. Or even a Schuhplattler, if that's what they ask in return. I just want this to be over. I liked but didn't love the car before this happened, though I can certainly understand why lots of people felt differently in one direction or the other.

Now, though, I want to move on and not think about my emissions or my resale value or the threat of having local wrenches cut into my car's guts. I won't rule out buying another VW, but that's only going to happen if they provide some massive incentive for doing so. Otherwise, I'll get a Volvo or BMW wagon and deal with the inevitable problems those brands bring with them.

No car is perfect, I know, but I feel badly enough burned by this experience (especially VW's bungling the aftermath of the revelation of wrongdoing) that the brand, absent some very good reason ($$$$$) to change my mind, is almost certainly dead to me forever.

The same is true, by the way, for my many, many friends who have TDIs. They've all vowed never again to own a VW. That's further than I'm willing to go, but this has been a major hassle and disappointment, and the car isn't good enough, in my view, to merit this sort of trouble.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by grawk

Pennsylvania Lemon Law only applies if the problem starts in the first year or 12000 miles. This problem started at 1 mile. If they want my car, they can give me what I paid for it. Given that I did nothing wrong, the only way I can be made whole if they take my car is to give me what I paid for it.

To be made whole is to be returned to the original state before damage was done. In this case, you had full use of your vehicle before it was forced to be bought back. Therefore the only damage you have suffered is the loss of a used car with whatever mileage it had when it was bought back. To be made whole would be to given the value of your used car, which is surely less than the price paid.

Let's say that the whole emission cheating scandal never happened. What would happen if you brought your several year old car in to the dealer for servicing, and while it was in their care the car was lost (maybe the dealers building collapsed or caught on fire or some other calamity)? Would you expect the dealer to re-imburse you for the full price that you paid several years and many thousands of miles earlier? Or would it be more fair to re-imburse you for the cost of replacing it with a similar car of the same age and mileage?

A case could be made for the return of full price if the car had only recently been purchased, but not after the car has been substantially used, and if during that time had given the owner full utility.

[shovelhd]

Originally Posted by Cat3roadracer

Why then are they not selling 2015 TDI's? Looking at Cars.com there's loads of them out there.

You might want to do a little research on the CARB action against VW. It's all spelled out. 2.l only:

Gen1 - 2009-2014 Golf, Jetta, Beetle, A3 TDI. No SCR. Most expensive to fix.
Gen2 - 2012-2014 Passat TDI. SCR but still has cheat code. May need hardware.
Gen3 - 2015-2016 TDI. SCR and new engine. May only require more urea but may need hardware.

All are on new and CPO stop sale until this is resolved. Used are ok to sell.

[shovelhd]

Originally Posted by grawk

Pennsylvania Lemon Law only applies if the problem starts in the first year or 12000 miles. This problem started at 1 mile. If they want my car, they can give me what I paid for it. Given that I did nothing wrong, the only way I can be made whole if they take my car is to give me what I paid for it.

You have two choices.

1) Lay off the spice.
2) Hire an attorney.

This is an unreasonable request. You want to have driven your car for free. Good luck with that.

The Toyota recall was a safety issue. This is not a safety issue. Your TDI is safe and legal to drive, at least for now.

My take. The EPA is not going to let this drag out forever. They have filed suit against VW but they do not have to wait for the courts to take action. Ken Feinberg is on board precisely to explore the options for owners. Something is going to be disclosed in the next 60 days or so. VW may not have a technical plan to fix the Gen1 cars, and the rest may be more than a flash and some free urea. With all of the acceptance and durability testing that would be required, any fix involving hardware is going to take too long. If any buyback occurs, it will be for those cars only. You'll get some pre scandal value for your car, and only that value in cash. If you stick with VW you will get a substantial deal on a new car. I am hoping that if this is what happens, that they include CPO. Being made whole, to me, would mean getting me into a comparable gasser with comparable equipment with comparable mileage with no increase in my loan costs. They should not pay for the use of my car. They should also not make me extend my loan payback or increase my payment. I should not have to pay anything out of pocket for their deceit.

[PoppaWheelie]

Originally Posted by superbowlpats

Back in 2008 Toyota bought back my 2000 Tacoma due to frame rot. Quite a few Tacomas in the NE were bought back, seems as though a manufacturing error made the frames susceptible to rust.

That was fun one. My parents had one go back...not only did the frame rot, but it happened at a point that supported the front strut assembly. When they failed, they failed in a way that caused total loss of control. My parents in Ottawa brought theirs in for an oil change (had no idea) and the dealer wouldn't let them even take it home....put them in a rental and Toyota had them in a new car in a week.

VW on the other hand...not so much. I know this is not a safety issue but the absolute lack of any communication outside of news rumors and interviews is creating a negative case study for future business school students.

[grawk]

I want to keep my car. They don't make a car that is at all comparable to my car any longer. If my car were a lemon, they'd buy it back for purchase price. This is a comparable situation. I am perfectly happy to keep driving my car until it dies of natural causes. That or a lemon law equivalent are in my opinion the only reasonable alternatives. The only way I was ever going to sell this car was going to be when it was 10 years old with 400k miles on it.

Originally Posted by shovelhd

You have two choices.

1) Lay off the spice.
2) Hire an attorney.

This is an unreasonable request. You want to have driven your car for free. Good luck with that.

The Toyota recall was a safety issue. This is not a safety issue. Your TDI is safe and legal to drive, at least for now.

My take. The EPA is not going to let this drag out forever. They have filed suit against VW but they do not have to wait for the courts to take action. Ken Feinberg is on board precisely to explore the options for owners. Something is going to be disclosed in the next 60 days or so. VW may not have a technical plan to fix the Gen1 cars, and the rest may be more than a flash and some free urea. With all of the acceptance and durability testing that would be required, any fix involving hardware is going to take too long. If any buyback occurs, it will be for those cars only. You'll get some pre scandal value for your car, and only that value in cash. If you stick with VW you will get a substantial deal on a new car. I am hoping that if this is what happens, that they include CPO. Being made whole, to me, would mean getting me into a comparable gasser with comparable equipment with comparable mileage with no increase in my loan costs. They should not pay for the use of my car. They should also not make me extend my loan payback or increase my payment. I should not have to pay anything out of pocket for their deceit.