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  #46  
Old 09-19-2015, 09:25 AM
CNY rider CNY rider is offline
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I guess we may find out if jail for criminal behavior has been abolished for all corporate executives or only those in banking and finance.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...iminal-charges
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  #47  
Old 09-19-2015, 10:22 AM
93legendti 93legendti is offline
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Given that the EPA was just caught lying in a scandal, I can see why they want to change the subject.


"FARMINGTON, N.M. Officials from the Environmental Protection Agency said Sunday that the Gold King Mine discharged an estimated 3 million gallons of contaminated water, three times the amount previously believed."


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...pill/31384515/

A mine safety team working for the Environmental Protection Agency has inadvertently triggered the spill of a million gallons of mine wastewater in San Juan County.
The orange-colored discharge started flowing from the Gold King Mine near Silverton into Cement Creek and then the Animas River on Wednesday and prompted heath officials Thursday to warn agricultural and recreational water users to avoid the river.

EPA confirmed Friday the discharge from the mine contained heavy metals and metalloids including lead and arsenic, along with cadmium, aluminum, copper and calcium, but the agency didn't immediately discuss amounts or health risks.


https://www.cpr.org/news/newsbeat/ep...e-animas-river
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Last edited by 93legendti; 09-19-2015 at 10:27 AM. Reason: Who from the EPA is going to jail?
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  #48  
Old 09-19-2015, 10:23 AM
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velomateo velomateo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kirk View Post
It's going to be very interesting to see how this shakes out and what VW has to do to our cars. Mine was in for basic service not that long back and I was told there was a service campaign and that the ECU was updated. I wonder if it was due to this?

I just read in the Times that VW could be fined as much as $37K for every car they sold that was part of this scheme and they said that would total $18,000,000,000 - yep 18 billions dollars.

That could hurt the bottom line. The thing that sucks is that there will be one guy at the most high up who's head will roll and then it will be the guys on the line that pay for it in the long run.

I'm pissed. I bought the car because of its high MPG and lower emissions not in spite of them.

dave
My 2012 Golf TDI just had the same ECU update about 6 weeks ago. The dealer really couldn't (wouldn't) tell me what exactly it was for or how it would effect performance. I didn't notice any drop in power after the update, so I was relieved. I don't feel like my TDI has a a ton of power anyway, especially next to my wife's 2.0 turbo CC, which has basically the same engine a the GTI. But, I don't want to get a new ECU program that will make it have even less.
I would hate to have spent a couple thousand on APR mods, only to have it all deleted with a new ECU program.
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  #49  
Old 09-19-2015, 10:28 AM
54ny77 54ny77 is online now
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i just read an article on this on bloomberg. that's friggin' mind boggling.

vw is screwed.
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  #50  
Old 09-19-2015, 11:19 AM
Climb01742 Climb01742 is offline
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Originally Posted by akelman View Post
i mean, if you can't trust german industrialists, who can you trust?
lol.
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  #51  
Old 09-19-2015, 12:25 PM
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kevinvc kevinvc is offline
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That Bloomberg article is amazing.

Quote:
What is so damning is that this was something actively pursued. This isn't an oversight, said Bloomberg Intelligence auto-industry analyst Kevin Tynan.
Someone at VW had to decide that cheating the system was going to be a better use of time, money and resources than meeting the regulatory requirements, Tynan said.
This is where the potential criminal charges come into play. Combined with the billions of dollars in potential fines by the EPA and a class action lawsuit by owners who have now seen the value of their vehicles decrease significantly, this could be a crippling blow to VW. I wonder if the German government holds to the concept of "too big to fail".
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Last edited by kevinvc; 09-19-2015 at 01:03 PM.
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  #52  
Old 09-19-2015, 12:33 PM
steveandbarb1 steveandbarb1 is online now
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Not sure if it will matter that much, not much has been put in the press - nothing on network news that I have seend. I bet most people in VW sales rooms today don't know anything about it. I only learned about it here...
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  #53  
Old 09-19-2015, 12:40 PM
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christian christian is online now
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The statutory fine that the EPA can levy is equal to about 18 months of net income for the entire VW group. Wouldn't bankrupt the company, but it's not ideal. Cash reserves are around 50m Euro I think so the treasurer is going to have to do some reserving and cash flow analysis.
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  #54  
Old 09-19-2015, 01:16 PM
4Rings6Stars 4Rings6Stars is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveandbarb1 View Post
Not sure if it will matter that much, not much has been put in the press - nothing on network news that I have seend. I bet most people in VW sales rooms today don't know anything about it. I only learned about it here...
It's a headline on most news sites that I have visited...
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  #55  
Old 09-19-2015, 01:31 PM
gavingould gavingould is offline
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i wouldn't be too surprised if whatever the 'fix' is has already been done to mine. was at the dealer 3 weeks ago for 30k mi/3yr service, then last weekend because the check engine dummy light had been lit since the first restart after driving it back out of the dealer.
they replaced the exhaust flap this past weekend (other owners should have also rec'd a letter from VW stating significant warranty extension on that part)

i'm betting they applied whatever ECU shenanigans during my 30k along with whatever outstanding recalls were already in place or they got it while replacing the flap.

have a riding buddy who until recently was a mech/tech for VW/Audi, none of this was surprising to him.
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  #56  
Old 09-19-2015, 02:10 PM
zap zap is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velomateo View Post
I would hate to have spent a couple thousand on APR mods, only to have it all deleted with a new ECU program.
Pretty common for ecu's to get upgraded at time of service at dealerships resulting in mods being deleted. It is also very difficult to mod ecu's these days so aftermarket firms have resorted to piggyback systems.

There is a push for manufacturers to retain legal ownership of ecu's.
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  #57  
Old 09-19-2015, 03:10 PM
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bcroslin bcroslin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zap View Post
Pretty common for ecu's to get upgraded at time of service at dealerships resulting in mods being deleted. It is also very difficult to mod ecu's these days so aftermarket firms have resorted to piggyback systems.

There is a push for manufacturers to retain legal ownership of ecu's.
I don't know that a manufacturer can make a claim on the hardware making up the ECU but they certainly can claim ownership of the software.

btw - there's a great thread on this topic on the site metafilter where some smart folks have chimed in. Worth a read while laying on the couch watching college football.
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  #58  
Old 09-19-2015, 03:15 PM
kgreene10 kgreene10 is offline
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I have just 1100 miles on my new 2015 Sportwagen TDI. I wonder if I can return it an ms get the gas model instead. In sure the answer is no, in which case I'm itching to get the class action suit going ASAP. I'm really bothered by this.
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  #59  
Old 09-19-2015, 03:18 PM
SlackMan SlackMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgreene10 View Post
I have just 1100 miles on my new 2015 Sportwagen TDI. I wonder if I can return it an ms get the gas model instead. In sure the answer is no, in which case I'm itching to get the class action suit going ASAP. I'm really bothered by this.
Probably can't return it, but a class action lawsuit was filed Friday so just be patient.
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  #60  
Old 09-19-2015, 03:25 PM
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bcroslin bcroslin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgreene10 View Post
I have just 1100 miles on my new 2015 Sportwagen TDI. I wonder if I can return it an ms get the gas model instead. In sure the answer is no, in which case I'm itching to get the class action suit going ASAP. I'm really bothered by this.
I've dialed back my vitriol a bit after reading and doing some research on the potential issues. Bottom line: it seems that most manufacturers are doing similar things to get around Cali emission standards. The thread I linked to is full of good info.
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