20 years ago today, il Pirata died

[benb]

Well I said "caught" not "admitted". Big difference.

I am not one to say they were victims but I am OK with someone who des argue they were victimized by their coaches/directors, team managers, sponsors, etc.. who at the time were not going to accept "No" when they showed up with a needle.

They always could have walked away, but most of them didn't have that much to walk away too, and guys like Ullrich were deep into the system as minors IIRC. Probably an easy choice if it's be a pro athlete who goes along with the team sponsored doping program or go work a dead end low-wage job.

[KonaSS]

Originally Posted by benb

Well I said "caught" not "admitted". Big difference.

Right - and my point was when they were caught, they denied it. Never admitted it. Real stand up guys.

Originally Posted by benb

They always could have walked away, but most of them didn't have that much to walk away too, and guys like Ullrich were deep into the system as minors IIRC. Probably an easy choice if it's be a pro athlete who goes along with the team sponsored doping program or go work a dead end low-wage job.

More apologizing and rationalizing for dopers. People can walk away. People did walk away. These two didn't.

I don't hate dopers. It was the sport for many years. But I really don't get how some get a pass and some don't. Seems like if you were a European, you get more leeway.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by Blown Reek

It's a reference to both Marco Pantani and his cocaine abuse (which wasn't mentioned) and Dave Chapelle's character Tyrone Biggums who (like Marco Pantani) is/was a cocaine addict. The 19mm tubular part refers to the fact that riders were riding 19mm tubulars (as opposed to today's widths [and are currently difficult to find]) back in Pantani's day, and since Tyrone is a crack addict (and Marco was a cocaine addict) he's looking for his "fix" of 19mm tires.

Maybe you just didn't know Marco Pantani's affinity towards cocaine, and if so, maybe your impression of him might change. If so, whoops.

That's what this post was. I hope the explanation doesn't leave you confused anymore, since you're now "in the know". Really.

Thanks. There was a loud whoosh as the layered references flew over my head. I know all about his use of cocaine and his sad death from an overdoes. No broken images. Context is everything.

[rustychisel]

well, this all went down about as I expected. RIP Marco.

[wc1934]

Originally Posted by rustychisel

well, this all went down about as I expected. RIP Marco.

Exactly!!
As my Grandmother used to say - "if you can't say something good about someone, don't say anything!"

[tv_vt]

Originally Posted by rustychisel

well, this all went down about as I expected. RIP Marco.

I think you're being sarcastic and that's fair play. But in defense of how this thread has played out, it is pretty hard, when talking about Pantani's death, to not be pulled into a discussion of doping. Not for making judgment calls on character, either. His life is just a very striking example of the trajectory doping in all its forms (professional, recreational, whatever) can take a person down. His life, and death, will always be intertwined with drugs and doping, sadly.
Hoping he's RIP, too.

[benb]

I just have no desire to apply 2024 standards to someone who died in 2004.

He made his decisions in a totally different world and he paid a really heavy price. It doesn't change he was one of those riders that when he was racing you were on the edge of your seat the whole time. RIP.

[laupsi]

Perhaps I haven’t been paying attention, but I cannot believe it’s been 20 years. Probably because I equate my love for cycling w/my younger days, I just cannot accept that I’m no longer “that person” and time will always dictate. It’s very sad really, all the memories from that era, then the sad, sad news that cycling was just as messy as everything else in life. Here’s to Marco, may he long be remembered for his unique style and ability.

As for a comparison to LA, there really isn’t one. A flawed individual does not necessarily equate to a sociopath!

[stefthehat]

No comment as such more an old memory ,on the morning of his passing being reported I remember being in a position to go out and buy that mornings Gazetta dello Sport .The front page from that was stick on the back of the workshop door that evening and survived 15 yrs ,it faded to pale yellow and became very brittle and brushed against ,it was funny how my students [18+]in later years would ask who it was and responses such as ‘oh yeah my dad loved his alloy Bianchi ‘

[axel23]

Thx for the link. Amazing to watch. And aside from being sans helmets, the difference in riding position is striking. So stretched out!

Originally Posted by weisan

the best Pantani actions for me is not with Armstrong@Tdf but at the 1998 Giro d'Italia, Pantani vs Alex Zülle and Pavel Tonkov.

Giro d'Italia 1998 - Part 4 (stage 14) - Marco Pantani attacks Pavel Tonkov & Alex Zülle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G_JwQqStpA

Giro d'Italia 1998 - Part 5 (stage 15-17) - Alex Zülle vs Marco Pantani
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FBukha5pUw

Giro d'Italia 1998 - Part 6 (stage 18-19) - Marco Pantani vs Pavel Tonkov
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1HRANDiBEQ