Way OT: PBS Vietnam Series

[54ny77]

well put.

the first and final episodes were my favorites.

what a divisive and controversial era in u.s. history. i am so, so glad that the tide of sentiment towards those who are serving in military has changed, generally speaking, towards one of acceptance, if not of admiration and respect.

i couldn't fathom what it would be like if some of my family, who came back from seeing hell in the middle east, were protested against and spat upon while exiting the airport. i was glad to see that woman who apologized for what she did to returning veterans when she was "a kid."

Originally Posted by thwart

I doubt anyone watching the final episode last night had a dry eye during the segment on the Memorial Wall.

Seemed like an appropriate conclusion to a tragic story.

[Climb01742]

I agree it's good, very good, that we can now admire soldiers who carry out a mission, even if we don't admire the mission. What I wish were also true now is that we could respect protesters too. In the 60s, protesters were called SOBs too, and worse, and were labelled as unAmerican. We've made progress in our respect for soldiers. Not everyone respects the right to protest now. About Vietnam, the protestors were right. History will say something about today's protestors too.

[Jgrooms]

2005 film and there is not as much acceptance of the right to protest here. Some vets of the Madison policy aren’t too much on free speech to this day.

Still avail on pbs app.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Days_in_October


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[palincss]

Originally Posted by 54ny77

i couldn't fathom what it would be like if some of my family, who came back from seeing hell in the middle east, were protested against and spat upon while exiting the airport. i was glad to see that woman who apologized for what she did to returning veterans when she was "a kid."

I was too. They did it to me, and I've never forgotten the feeling. Her apology really helped.

I kind of wished they'd followed up with some of the people who objected to the Wall. I think the reality of it in person far exceeds anything the drawings and sketches would have led you to believe. I wonder sometimes if even Maya Lin had any real idea how it would be when built, or how it would affect people.

[marciero]

Originally Posted by palincss

I was too. They did it to me, and I've never forgotten the feeling. Her apology really helped.

I kind of wished they'd followed up with some of the people who objected to the Wall. I think the reality of it in person far exceeds anything the drawings and sketches would have led you to believe. I wonder sometimes if even Maya Lin had any real idea how it would be when built, or how it would affect people.

Absolutely. I am not big on monuments and memorials, but the Wall had a powerful affect on me when I visited.

[OtayBW]

Originally Posted by marciero

Absolutely. I am not big on monuments and memorials, but the Wall had a powerful affect on me when I visited.

I felt the same way at the 911 memorial. Stunning is literally the word that describes my experience.

[fiamme red]

I'm now watching one of the earlier episodes that I missed the first time it showed in September. I'm learning a lot that I didn't know.

[Jeff N.]

I was stationed at Ubon Airbase, Thailand, '70-'71. F-4's, AC-130 Gunships. I loaded bombs on F-4's. They flew missions round the clock. We worked 12 hour shifts with two shifts. With all the missions that were flown out of Ubon alone, and the tons and tons of bombs dropped, I will always be puzzled that we didn't win that war. Was also stationed at Anderson AFB, Guam, for 6 mo., '72, when Nixon decided it'd be a good idea to bomb the hell out of N. Vietnam. B-52's taking off on missions non-stop, 'round the clock. That said........absolutely nothing was gained from that war. Nothing.

[VoyTirando]

My dad was in the 4th infantry div. in '68 and '69. He didn't talk much about the war while we were growing up, except to make cracks about how inefficient everything way, or to tell funny stories about staying dry, or leeches. Later he began to talk a little, and we learned he'd been in combat for essentially an entire year, and even later we learned it was over the border in Cambodia. We've been talking about the Burns series, and it's interesting to hear him reflect on how little they knew at the time, how powerless the average soldier was, and how far away the political discussion of 'why' felt. They were just trying to stay alive, one 'seek and avoid' mission after another....

[dumbod]

I just got back from a long road trip that included Louisville. I won't say that the Mohammed Ali museum is the only reason to visit Louisville but it, by itself, would be enough to justify a visit. (My wife admitted that she only visited the museum to placate her spouse but she came away fascinated.)

There's a lots that's 'unattractive' about the young Ali and you may not have agreed with his stance at the time but it's hard not to be impressed with the courage the man showed in refusing to be drafted. He gave up 3+ years of the prime of his career because of his beliefs.

We had just finished the Burns Vietnam documentary when we visited the museum. The juxtaposition of those two events really brought home the tragedy of that war. The stupidest war of all time was WWI (hey, let's charge those machine guns - it hasn't worked the last 75 times we tried it but this time will be the charm) but Vietnam has to be a close second.

[Bostic]

I watched the first episode and am recording the rest of the series to view later. My wife is Vietnamese, my father in law never talks about that time but he has stories from what the rest of the family says.

[coffeecake]

I have yet to watch the series, but this thread prompted me to read We Were Soldiers Once... and Young, A Rumor of War, Hue 1968, in addition to Matterhorn and Fields of Fire.

Even with such detailed and accurate accounts as given in the above works, I will never know (and hope to never know) what it's actually like to fight for your life in a situation like that encountered by combatants in Vietnam. Some of the descriptions make me cry in frustration at the seemingly unnecessary deaths that resulted from short-sighted orders delivered by commanders far-removed from the battlefield.

The struggle to survive some of those battles in just incredible. The compassionate and selfless actions the soldiers make for their countrymen (and even sometimes their enemy) are really mind-boggling.

[djg21]

Originally Posted by VoyTirando

My dad was in the 4th infantry div. in '68 and '69. He didn't talk much about the war while we were growing up, except to make cracks about how inefficient everything way, or to tell funny stories about staying dry, or leeches. Later he began to talk a little, and we learned he'd been in combat for essentially an entire year, and even later we learned it was over the border in Cambodia. We've been talking about the Burns series, and it's interesting to hear him reflect on how little they knew at the time, how powerless the average soldier was, and how far away the political discussion of 'why' felt. They were just trying to stay alive, one 'seek and avoid' mission after another....

I have a neighbor who is a Vietnam Vet and we spoke about the series. I was reluctant to bring it up initially, but he watched it and was very willing to talk. He started by telling me that the Burns series focused on the fight in South Vietnam, while he was in North Vietnam humping around the jungle fighting the NVA. He indicated that the reporters and correspondents covering the war rarely ventured far from Saigon in South Vietnam, and never into North Vietnam.

His recounted trying to navigate through the jungle with heavy radio gear on his back, and essentially having to scavenge villages for food because the rations they could carry were so meager. He smiled when telling me about finding a stash of Johnny Walker in one village they searched, and doing what a bunch of 20 year old kids do when they find such a prize. He told me that he never spoke to the members of his unit that remained after his last tour ended because he was reluctant to learn that they might have died.

It was a quite interesting talk. I’ve offered to take my neighbor out and buy him dinner so we can talk more about his experiences.

[Jgrooms]

Originally Posted by djg21

I have a neighbor who is a Vietnam Vet and we spoke about the series. I was reluctant to bring it up initially, but he watched it and was very willing to talk. He started by telling me that the Burns series focused on the fight in South Vietnam, while he was in North Vietnam humping around the jungle fighting the NVA. He indicated that the reporters and correspondents covering the war rarely ventured far from Saigon in South Vietnam, and never into North Vietnam.



His recounted trying to navigate through the jungle with heavy radio gear on his back, and essentially having to scavenge villages for food because the rations they could carry were so meager. He smiled when telling me about finding a stash of Johnny Walker in one village they searched, and doing what a bunch of 20 year old kids do when they find such a prize. He told me that he never spoke to the members of his unit that remained after his last tour ended because he was reluctant to learn that they might have died.



It was a quite interesting talk. I’ve offered to take my neighbor out and buy him dinner so we can talk more about his experiences.

Always interesting when a vet shares their story.

You may have misunderstood him on the north-south issue. There were no ground ops in North Vietnam (covert yes).

US divided South Vietnam into four corps and the fighting varied significantly due to geography.

Sounds like your neighbor was in I corps “eye core”, which was highland jungle & also more NVA territory along the DMZ in the far north of SVN.

IMO Burns was balanced in having vets who served in various areas & eras.

And he may still harbor some press bias? As a student of the conflict, there’s not an area the journalist’s did not see unless the brass were trying to keep them out. Which they rarely succeeded in doing.




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[djg21]

Originally Posted by Jgrooms

Always interesting when a vet shares their story.

You may have misunderstood him on the north-south issue. There were no ground ops in North Vietnam (covert yes).

US divided South Vietnam into four corps and the fighting varied significantly due to geography.

Sounds like your neighbor was in I corps “eye core”, which was highland jungle & also more NVA territory along the DMZ in the far north of SVN.

IMO Burns was balanced in having vets who served in various areas & eras.

And he may still harbor some press bias? As a student of the conflict, there’s not an area the journalist’s did not see unless the brass were trying to keep them out. Which they rarely succeeded in doing.




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That’s what I thought too about him being in North Vietnam. I initially thought he perhaps meant he was in the northern part of South Vietnam. So I asked him to clarify, and he stated that he was in North Vietnam. I’ll let you know when I talk to him next. It is certainly possible I misunderstood. He did mention the name of a region I don’t recall, and a war zone his unit operated in or from, but my understanding was that only the South was divided into war zones, as you point out. My recollection is that he said he was there in ‘67-‘68.

As to media bias, I’d be surprised, but it certainly is possible.