OT: Diesel pickup truck recommendation

[morrisericd]

I went and drove some trucks yesterday. Apologies to the OP - not trying to take this over, just adding some data points (and a few questions!).

I really liked the fit and finish of the Chevy and GMC 2500's. I was in the mid trim LT and whatever the GMC version is. Seats were comfortable, updated electronics with CarPlay and all that. Gasser felt like it had plenty of power with the Allison branded 10 speed transmission and of course, the real Allison and diesel had lots of power and torque. $62,000 for the gas, $72,000 for the diesel.

The XLT F250 with the diesel was probably my favorite. And - at $78,000 with "no wiggle room" - the most expensive. Nice inside, although the others were a bit nicer I think - but it felt like it could pull a house over. I appreciate that it, and the others, were not jacked up with huge wheels and tires. I actually work out of my truck and pull a trailer. I'm not looking for attention. Drove the gas version - not enough power. It just felt like my old truck. I could go down to the the XL's on the Fords and be more in the range of the GMC and Chevy, but the interior isn't nearly as nice and seemed dated.

Now - onto buying. They are giving me a good amount ($23,000 - I paid $37,000 7 years ago) for my Ford. There doesn't seem to be any wiggle room in the Fords and the Chevy and GMC, maybe a couple of thousand. Interest rates are not great (I know, historically they are, but in the 80's I was driving a $500 Civic) but I'll pay it off in a year or two. Any thoughts on either pricing or even at least finding invoice prices? I searched for a couple of hours last night and didn't have any luck. I used to be able to easily find invoice and then negotiate from there. Most of these guys have so many incentives out there, they're still making money just over invoice (so I've heard).

Also not decided on diesel vs. gas. Part of me thinks I'll be fine with the GMC gasser towing 12,000 pounds with a gooseneck, but I just don't know. There are a lot of videos out there claiming that the gassers are almost as good. I want to be safe with there horses. Exhaust braking is also a good thing with the diesels.

[Gsinill]

Originally Posted by morrisericd

I went and drove some trucks yesterday. Apologies to the OP - not trying to take this over, just adding some data points (and a few questions!).
...

Not taking over at all, exactly the kind of information I am looking for.

[PaMtbRider]

Before trading any vehicle in at a dealership get an offer from Carmax and Carvana. My wife bought a new Subaru Outback last month. Dealership offered 14,900 for her old Subaru and wouldn't budge. Carvana offered 19,000 and was the best experience we have ever had selling a vehicle.

[Gsinill]

Started out with the Ford website last night.
Geez, I thought choosing from a gazillion options was only a thing for German high-end cars...
Parts of the website suck, e.g. absolutely no description of the differences between the 2 available Diesel engines, regular and high output.
I can guess but some details would be nice.

One additional question: dually or not?

[glepore]

Originally Posted by Gsinill

Started out with the Ford website last night.
Geez, I thought choosing from a gazillion options was only a thing for German high-end cars...
Parts of the website suck, e.g. absolutely no description of the differences between the 2 available Diesel engines, regular and high output.
I can guess but some details would be nice.

One additional question: dually or not?

Dually is more of a payload than a towing thing, depends on trailer weight and balance. I tow fine with a single rear wheel f350 and a 3 horse trailer with living quarters that goes around 10k loaded, but is lightish on the gooseneck.
Dually is another thing that adds expense if you don't need it, but is invaluable if you do.

[Mike V]

What to watch when getting a dually is gross vehicle weight increases and you tow a longer trailer you might need to move up in your drivers license. You can be in the commercial size and weight category. Some states are sticklers about that and some aren’t.

A good way to look at things is get the best vehicle to tow and won’t get pushed around by your tow when conditions aren’t ideal.

[glepore]

Originally Posted by morrisericd

Also not decided on diesel vs. gas. Part of me thinks I'll be fine with the GMC gasser towing 12,000 pounds with a gooseneck, but I just don't know. There are a lot of videos out there claiming that the gassers are almost as good. I want to be safe with there horses. Exhaust braking is also a good thing with the diesels.

You're in hilly country?
The gassers are good, but make power differently and you'll be in upper rev ranges uphill. They do lack the compression braking, with 12k I'd be thinking about that.
I have family with Duramax and they love them. I'm ok with my Ford. My son has a Ram, and its a nice truck, very nice in fact, but my past experience with Dodge is that the interior fell apart. Maybe they fixed that, maybe not.
In Vermont I'd look into getting your brakelines protected somehow. I have a buddy in Pa who more or less makes a living replacing brake lines on 3-4 y/o trucks. The spray on chloride deicers the DOT's are using eat thru them like acid. Sucks to lose a brakeline with a loaded horsetrailer-happened to my lady with my truck and her bumperpull. No injuries but traumatic.

[p nut]

Agreed with glepore. ie If you’re driving steep, high-elevation grades with that much weight, diesel would be nice. If you’re in Texas, I’d go gas.

Aside from the engine, look at the amenities and options as well. ie I didn’t think I’d like the tailgate step on the ford but it’s really useful. Much better than the bumper step in other trucks. Or maybe the Rambox would be useful for you as well. I also love the flat floor in the rear of the Ford. With the seats up, you can put a lot of stuff in there. I think the Ram front seats are more comfortable though.

[bigbill]

Originally Posted by glepore

Dually is more of a payload than a towing thing, depends on trailer weight and balance. I tow fine with a single rear wheel f350 and a 3 horse trailer with living quarters that goes around 10k loaded, but is lightish on the gooseneck.
Dually is another thing that adds expense if you don't need it, but is invaluable if you do.

Dually trucks are great for heavy trailers, but a PITA for other aspects such as parking and costs. You have to keep an eye on tire pressure. A low pressure on one tire of a pair causes the higher pressure tire to heat up. IMO, if it is a dedicated tow vehicle and the trailer is >12-13K pounds, it is the best choice. As a daily driver, it is less than practical. That said, duallies sometimes sit on the lot and you can get a good deal at the end of the year. I was surprised at how affordable F-450s are, but again, it will be expensive to operate.

Two years ago, the local Chevy dealer had a long bed, regular cab, 2WD, Duramax 3500 dually for $60K. My F-250 is a work truck XLT with cloth bench seats and not much in the way of bells and whistles. It was $13K less than a Lariat. I have the nice entertainment system with a big screen, that's all that mattered to me for options.

[PaMtbRider]

I agree with BigBill about considering a dually if you're regularly towing 12k+ or considering a truck camper. Maneuverability definitely becomes an issue. There is a noticeable difference in the turning radius between a 1/2 and 3/4 ton truck. A dually will be another magnitude more difficult to maneuver.

Diesel engines are heavy and can eat up a lot of payload. I have seen payload stickers below 1800 pounds on a few Ram 3/4 ton trucks. Some people recommend a single rear wheel 1 ton because of that. They don't cost much more than the 3/4 ton and ride very close to the same.

Be aware that in some states the registration cost increases dramatically with the gvwr of the vehicle.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by PaMtbRider

Diesel engines are heavy and can eat up a lot of payload.

Yes, but when it comes to towing, a heavier tow vehicle is your friend.

[PaMtbRider]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

Yes, but when it comes to towing, a heavier tow vehicle is your friend.

Agreed, but many people buy a 3/4 ton diesel and think they can tow / haul anything on the planet. An 8000 pound trailer would not be an issue. Hook up a 12,000 pound trailer that has a 1500 pound tongue weight and you have very little payload left to work with. Add a toneau cover, gas grill, generator, some firewood, any passengers, and you can easily be over the payload limit.

[jds108]

Originally Posted by morrisericd

The XLT F250 with the diesel was probably my favorite. And - at $78,000 with "no wiggle room" - the most expensive.

If you can't get a Ford dealer to bargain, just wait. There is about to be a historic glut of new Ford pickups. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-...160335760.html

[Gsinill]

Originally Posted by jds108

If you can't get a Ford dealer to bargain, just wait. There is about to be a historic glut of new Ford pickups. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-...160335760.html

F-150 only.

[morrisericd]

Well - after a week of searching and calling around, it's finally over! Buying a vehicle is exhausting.

Brought home a new F250 diesel. I worked three dealers against each other and ended up $3,100 under MSRP. Plus - they gave me way more for my 2017 F250 than Carvana or Carmax would give or Edmunds says it was worth. I really did like the Ford diesel the best, but there really was no negotiating the price on the GMC / Chevy products anyway. Pretty easy transaction and I'm happy with the truck. A few more doo-dads than I need, but it's going to be a long term great work / horse hauling truck.