OT: Paying cash for a new car, tips?

[verticaldoug]

I'm pretty sure most recent car purchases the past several years are trading below their outstanding loan value. Unless of course, you bought a ferrari or a lambo, but you paid cash for that anyway.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by froze

What you speak of is all myth and fear.

I dont know how this is myth and fear, this is the facts of where we are now. The car I bought 2 years ago cost me exactly what it cost the last guy new, 2 years earlier. I know this because I test drove them and decided on something different.

And anyone talking about $3000 brake jobs is the one spewing myth and fear, those are extreme outliers and a dealer taking a customer to the cleaners.

[NHAero]

Originally Posted by froze

What you speak of is all myth and fear.

First off the interest rate on new cars is over 7%.

Secondly, a new car does not guarantee you a perfect running car, in fact cars that break down the most do so during the first 6 months of use, after that the bugs are worked out and all is good for a long time. A new car service record cost is the same as a used car unless you plan on buying a new car before the first oil change is due! My 09 Acura TL Tech with 148,000 miles cost me an average of $349 a year to maintain, it has not needed one repair. My 10 Toyota Tundra 4X4 SR5 has 118,000 miles on it, it has averaged $150 a year to maintain, with no repairs needed (maintenance is low on that one because it doesn't get driven as much as the Acura).

Staying with cars that have a known track record of reliability and long life, like the Toyota/Lexus and Honda/Acura will keep repair costs far away for a long time. Even then most repairs are inexpensive, but you won't get anywhere near the repairs as you would with an American brand, nor will you get expensive repairs, or for that matter expensive maintenance like you will find with German cars.

I have a friend who has an Audi, he needed all 4 brakes done, the cost to have the pads replaced was just over $3,000, the rotors were fine. I looked into buying a BMW Z4, but when I asked I found out the front brakes alone would cost $1,200, that was 3 years ago, prices have gone up since then, so I decided not to tangle myself up with an expensive to maintain car. My Acura so far has only needed the front brakes done in all that time, it cost me $320, so assuming that cost would be the same for the rear, then my total brake job would have cost me $640.

When you look at the fact that I bought the Acura with 43,000 on the odo when it was 5 years old for $14,500, it sold new for $44,000, and have had no repairs in 10 years and over 100,000 miles I'm way ahead of the person buying a new car every 7 years or so thinking they're going to win the game by getting a car that won't need repairs, to think like that is just pure ignorance. Any financial guru will tell you that it is wiser to buy used, and wiser to drive the wheels off the car.

Your points about sticking with reliable brands is valid. I've bought used Hondas for decades. I bought my 2008 Honda Fit in 2010 as a one owner car with 34,000 miles. When I replaced it two years ago due to corrosion I think I'd only replaced the front rotors and an alternator (in addition to tires and a battery).

I don't agree that for these cars the depreciation is very much. I replaced the '08 with a '20 Fit (the last year they were brought into the US sigh) that had 5,300 miles, certified pre-owned. I paid in Feb 2022 at a dealer more than that car sold for new, $22,850. I just looked at Cars.com, and today, searching for 2020 Fits under 10,000 miles brought up nine cars with an average listed price of $21,700. And they aren't all CPO. And they are two years older now.

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by froze

What you speak of is all myth and fear.

First off the interest rate on new cars is over 7%.

Secondly, a new car does not guarantee you a perfect running car, in fact cars that break down the most do so during the first 6 months of use, after that the bugs are worked out and all is good for a long time. A new car service record cost is the same as a used car unless you plan on buying a new car before the first oil change is due! My 09 Acura TL Tech with 148,000 miles cost me an average of $349 a year to maintain, it has not needed one repair. My 10 Toyota Tundra 4X4 SR5 has 118,000 miles on it, it has averaged $150 a year to maintain, with no repairs needed (maintenance is low on that one because it doesn't get driven as much as the Acura).

Staying with cars that have a known track record of reliability and long life, like the Toyota/Lexus and Honda/Acura will keep repair costs far away for a long time. Even then most repairs are inexpensive, but you won't get anywhere near the repairs as you would with an American brand, nor will you get expensive repairs, or for that matter expensive maintenance like you will find with German cars.

I have a friend who has an Audi, he needed all 4 brakes done, the cost to have the pads replaced was just over $3,000, the rotors were fine. I looked into buying a BMW Z4, but when I asked I found out the front brakes alone would cost $1,200, that was 3 years ago, prices have gone up since then, so I decided not to tangle myself up with an expensive to maintain car. My Acura so far has only needed the front brakes done in all that time, it cost me $320, so assuming that cost would be the same for the rear, then my total brake job would have cost me $640.

When you look at the fact that I bought the Acura with 43,000 on the odo when it was 5 years old for $14,500, it sold new for $44,000, and have had no repairs in 10 years and over 100,000 miles I'm way ahead of the person buying a new car every 7 years or so thinking they're going to win the game by getting a car that won't need repairs, to think like that is just pure ignorance. Any financial guru will tell you that it is wiser to buy used, and wiser to drive the wheels off the car.

Yeah, but, how about buying that car new, and then driving it into the ground? Bonus 43,000 miles, right? And about ten have the new car smell.
The repairs if bought new are free, I'm pretty sure. New cars carry warranties enforced by lemon laws.

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by .RJ

I dont know how this is myth and fear, this is the facts of where we are now. The car I bought 2 years ago cost me exactly what it cost the last guy new, 2 years earlier. I know this because I test drove them and decided on something different.

And anyone talking about $3000 brake jobs is the one spewing myth and fear, those are extreme outliers and a dealer taking a customer to the cleaners.

I see that you have not owned an overpriced German car.

[Nomadmax]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

I see that you have not owned an overpriced German car.

Bring
More
Withya

[froze]

Originally Posted by NHAero

Your points about sticking with reliable brands is valid. I've bought used Hondas for decades. I bought my 2008 Honda Fit in 2010 as a one owner car with 34,000 miles. When I replaced it two years ago due to corrosion I think I'd only replaced the front rotors and an alternator (in addition to tires and a battery).

I don't agree that for these cars the depreciation is very much. I replaced the '08 with a '20 Fit (the last year they were brought into the US sigh) that had 5,300 miles, certified pre-owned. I paid in Feb 2022 at a dealer more than that car sold for new, $22,850. I just looked at Cars.com, and today, searching for 2020 Fits under 10,000 miles brought up nine cars with an average listed price of $21,700. And they aren't all CPO. And they are two years older now.

Remember I said averages and the chart is an average as well. Toyota and Honda do not depreciate as fast as the average car does because they are known to be very high-reliability cars and people are willing to pay more for them for that reason.

I live in the rust belt, my cars are 22, 15, and 14 years old, none of them have any rust, something I never experienced with any American car or truck, and for some reason American trucks rust faster than American cars, not sure what that's about. American trucks will start rusting as soon as 3 years after it was built, Rams are known for that, but American cars seem to take about twice as long as trucks to start rusting.

Toyota did have a problem with Tacoma frames rusting severely, our Feds demanded a recall so Toyota replaced those vehicles with new ones for the customers, Ford has a major problem with their truck frames rusting, but the Feds refused to demand a recall like they did with Toyota, I guess American vehicles are a bit more protected against major recalls so that American brands won't go bankrupt. I had a 78 Ford F150 I had to take to the salvage yard due to a very unsafe frame from rusting out, it was only 10 years old, and that frame rust was common for the era of the truck I had, but that problem was also happening to the era after that because it happened to my 97 Ford F150 to the salvage yard it went, but that went due to the second engine blowing, two engines in 112,000 miles, I had enough of that crap, but it also had severe frame rust.

[buddybikes]

Whole brake set for Audi allroad, Audi genuine - 689.00. secondary brand 300.00

Seems like inline with better Japanese stuff

Sure if you have a top model would be more

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

I see that you have not owned an overpriced German car.

You're wrong on that, have had plenty of pain in my wallet from various Audis and BMW's over the years. They're great cars when they work, and some were easier to own than others. They've mostly been serviced by a local independent shop - while not cheap, the idea of $3000 for a set of brake pads sounds like an urban legend - even half that would be borderline fraud from the dealer.

One of the BMW's went in for an airbag recall and I got a "complimentary service inspection" that came back with a bill of over $4000 for rear shocks and a valve cover gasket on a car with ~50k miles. I asked the service writer to come out and show me where they were leaking/failing and they couldnt.

I dont know if dealers trying to pull one over on customers is unique to the german brands, but, they've earned whatever reputation they get on that one.

Owning a german car out of warranty is never going to be cheaper than a Honda or Toyota though, even if those arent without their faults. But the whole point of my response was that the car market has drastically changed and it may be another 5 or 10 years before things return to normal patterns of depreciation and sales cycles.

[NHAero]

Originally Posted by froze

Remember I said averages and the chart is an average as well. Toyota and Honda do not depreciate as fast as the average car does because they are known to be very high-reliability cars and people are willing to pay more for them for that reason.

I live in the rust belt, my cars are 22, 15, and 14 years old, none of them have any rust, something I never experienced with any American car or truck, and for some reason American trucks rust faster than American cars, not sure what that's about. American trucks will start rusting as soon as 3 years after it was built, Rams are known for that, but American cars seem to take about twice as long as trucks to start rusting.

Toyota did have a problem with Tacoma frames rusting severely, our Feds demanded a recall so Toyota replaced those vehicles with new ones for the customers, Ford has a major problem with their truck frames rusting, but the Feds refused to demand a recall like they did with Toyota, I guess American vehicles are a bit more protected against major recalls so that American brands won't go bankrupt. I had a 78 Ford F150 I had to take to the salvage yard due to a very unsafe frame from rusting out, it was only 10 years old, and that frame rust was common for the era of the truck I had, but that problem was also happening to the era after that because it happened to my 97 Ford F150 to the salvage yard it went, but that went due to the second engine blowing, two engines in 112,000 miles, I had enough of that crap, but it also had severe frame rust.

The older Rangers also have a frame rust issue. When I bought my 2001 in 2012, the frame was sound. I took it eventually to a independent body shop and he knew this failure mode and welded some additional steel to bolster this area.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by froze

I have a friend who has an Audi, he needed all 4 brakes done, the cost to have the pads replaced was just over $3,000, the rotors were fine.

$3,000 for a brake job NOT including the rotors? Maybe if it's an R8, otherwise that's nonsense.

[batman1425]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

$3,000 for a brake job NOT including the rotors? Maybe if it's an R8, otherwise that's nonsense.

I've heard of some dealerships quoting 2500-3000 for jobs like that, especially in big cities where price gouging is more common. I suspect a quality independent would charge half of that at most for parts and labor.

[ColnagoC59]

I never lease and i haven't borrowed to buy a car since 1991. I keep cars a long time and I don't get any self worth from owning one.
What I've always done is look up as many ads as possible , figure out the lowest point and walk into the dealer and offer it. I always tell them time is not important and I'm willing to wait. I also don't entertain options. It usually works but sometimes I have to go to more than one dealer. The one caveat I'll provide is that my current car was purchased back in 2005 and its going strong, so if dealer appetite has changed I've been out of the market for a while

[Peter P.]

How does ordering a car and spec'ing all the options compare to buying a new car off the lot when it comes to negotiating?

Is there any flexibility in price when the dealer has to order the car to your specs?

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by Peter P.

Is there any flexibility in price when the dealer has to order the car to your specs?

Not likely.

In normal times, with cars on the lot waiting for buyers - the upside for the buyer on a car thats on the lot, is that the dealer is either currently or will pay interest on it if they dont move it - plus they have other incentives like manufacturer holdbacks and promotions.