OT: The kids these days.

[giverdada]

I work with teenagers every day in old old classrooms in an old old system trying to teach old old books' ideas with new words and modern takes and postmodern shortcomings. It's a beautiful and hard thing.

Then a student today asks if I knew a fifteen-year-old girl at another school who died on the weekend. Suicide was mentioned/rumored. I did not know her.

We've discussed it on here a bit before, regarding depression/mental health and using the bike (and other avenues) to cope, but this news today just hit me me and made me wonder what the hell we are doing to raise kids that feel they have no other options, no further to go. What are we doing? The postmodernist in me wonders about the assumption that every living person should, and should want to live. I don't know. I just care for these kids and feel pretty helpless sometimes when faced with realities like this.

Anyway, I don't have a discussion-starter here. I just happened upon this devastating news today and am still stunned. What do your kids do to deal? What helped you through the dark in all those tough teen years? What can I see or say to keep the balance?

[Louis]

That's an unfortunate story. For the kids, talking about it in a classroom setting with guidance from an adult should certainly help a bit.

I know very little about this, but I figure this is a good place to start:

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publi...et/index.shtml

[malcolm]

they have little ability to project and limited perspective therefore everything seems like then end of the world

[pitonpat]

I'm always saddened when I hear of a young person who feels there is no option other than suicide.

In your post, you asked how we got through our dark teen years... and for me it was my involvement with a really adventurous Boy Scout troop. From my Scoutmaster, who was my greatest influence and mentor eclipsing all others, I developed and have pursued an interest in outdoor pursuits; especially rock climbing and mountaineering. This, along with the friends I made within the Scout troop, gave me the sense of worth and belonging that I surmise may be missing for so many kids. The activities I pursued were so different than my school peers and that gave a profound sense of self-worth beyond the mundane daily activities of a typical teenager.

Since you're posing this question on a cycling forum, and presumably you are a cyclist, and supposing that you are casting about for some way to inspire your students, may I suggest you start a cycling club at your school?

I suppose the effort to do so may be fraught with all sorts of stumbling blocks like insurance and the potential danger associated with the sport, as well as the potential need for bikes for those students who don't already one one. I think you might be surprised by the generosity of our cycling community, and equipping a club might not be such a difficult thing. In my experience, being a part of a special or unique group can make all the difference to a kid!

I'll offer to be the first...You get something started and I'll send you my Lemond Etape (Shimano Tiagra triple & new tires) to get the stable of rides started. Let me know...

[Kirk007]

We've lost a family member to suicide. My son has lost 1 very, very close friend, and at least three other acquaintances to suicide since he was 16 (now 22). The most recent at Christmas - a feisty, seemingly joyous and adventurous young woman who was a high achiever through high school and college, and was then trying to find herself in Hawaii working in a dive shop after a disillusioning experience with a dolphin rescue organization. We never would have guessed. I think some teen suicide is spontaneous, emotional naive overreaction but most I believe has much deeper roots.

My wife, Ian's mother, struggles with depression, has for the almost 30 years of our marriage. Tried every medication, counseling, exercise, diet. We live it. There are periods when I wonder on an almost daily basis whether she will still be with me when I get home. And I understand, and will forgive her if someday I come home and she is gone. I see, practically feel the darkness somedays.

I recently talked about this with my son and he said that he has thought about suicide (again I think many of us probably have) but that he just couldn't leave friends and family with all of the unanswered questions that he has had to deal with through the loss of his friends. I hope he always holds to this. He worries about his mom on a daily basis.

I think as a society we ignore and severely discount how hard life is for many, we deny that depression is a medical disease, we tell people to get over it --we don't know sh*t when we speak like that. For someone who has never dealt with depression or been very close to someone who has, well, they are pretty much clueless (and perhaps very lucky even if it creates a lack of empathy on their part). Last July I lost my law school roommate to suicide in July. His note apologized for the pain he was causing for friends and family but ended with that for him, the pain was finally over.

A good, quality life is worth living. Not everyone has that. Many of our kids believe the will not. Is it really a wonder that kids are so pessimistic and have such a bleak outlook on life? Look around at society and the class divide, the underlying racism that the internet and everyone with a camera is documenting still runs rampant through our societies, the rage and crime, and terror and medieval acts and mindset in the Mideast, the runaway destruction of our world. Ask these kids what they think of the future they face - I've had more than one teenager tell me that "they" are f*cked - and our actions are the reason why.

I don't know what you tell your school children dealing with this. There is no good answer as far as I can tell as you don't know what really happened. For the kids, I think empathy and just being available is best. And there is a lot of information out there on support of "survivors." I would focus on the parents, and remind them to love their kids every day. To keep communications lines open. To be watchful for changes in behavior. To not be afraid to ask questions and intervene if they believe it necessary. And finally, to accept that their children, just like every other person on earth, is their own person. We do not own or possess them, we tend and watch after them for a time, but at some point, they will live their life on their terms, or not.

I believe now, with the right reserved to change my mind, that I would prefer to take my life than live the current life of, for instance, my father-in-law - year three in a memory care facility with dementia. Can't talk, can't feed himself, can't go to the bathroom or clean-up after himself, his teeth are falling out as he can't brush. Screw that. We all will move on in time, and I have respect and sympathy for those who chose the timing. That said, the decay of our social fabric and support for others, particularly those suffering mental illnesses is beyond words to me. Whenever I hear someone boasting of America's exceptionalism, I think of this and shake my head.

Sorry for the ramble; this topic is very personal and one that I am way too familiar with.

[eddief]

Think about being human and the complexities of us as a machine. Reality is a miracle. The planet is a miracle. The universe is a crazy miracle. Social structure is a miracle. Politics is a miracle. Bio chemistry is a miracle. Something can easily go haywire and we are, in many ways, too small to be able to handle the complexity. So some weird, unpredictable, and sad stuff can happen. But crazy good stuff happens too. All we can do is the best we can do. I contend I and many others often are not at our best...and then there are huge populations that not even in the ballpark.

I think it's weird to spend millions to build a suicide barrier on the Golden Gate Bridge.

[giverdada]

wow.

pat, amazingly generous offer for the bike. amazing.

kirk007, wow. no words.

but thanks. so many thanks.

[ultraman6970]

Pfff... I can fill u a whole book to answer the questions the OP is making...

[peanutgallery]

As the committee chair for my son's troop I appreciate the sentiment about a scoutmaster and the program. A scoutmaster is definitely a calling. I hope my son gets the same out of scouts that I did as a kid

That is a tough age and finding a place to grow and go is hard. its sad when a kid responds like this, as a parent its heartbreaking to hear stories like this

Originally Posted by pitonpat

I'm always saddened when I hear of a young person who feels there is no option other than suicide.

In your post, you asked how we got through our dark teen years... and for me it was my involvement with a really adventurous Boy Scout troop. From my Scoutmaster, who was my greatest influence and mentor eclipsing all others, I developed and have pursued an interest in outdoor pursuits; especially rock climbing and mountaineering. This, along with the friends I made within the Scout troop, gave me the sense of worth and belonging that I surmise may be missing for so many kids. The activities I pursued were so different than my school peers and that gave a profound sense of self-worth beyond the mundane daily activities of a typical teenager.

Since you're posing this question on a cycling forum, and presumably you are a cyclist, and supposing that you are casting about for some way to inspire your students, may I suggest you start a cycling club at your school?

I suppose the effort to do so may be fraught with all sorts of stumbling blocks like insurance and the potential danger associated with the sport, as well as the potential need for bikes for those students who don't already one one. I think you might be surprised by the generosity of our cycling community, and equipping a club might not be such a difficult thing. In my experience, being a part of a special or unique group can make all the difference to a kid!

I'll offer to be the first...You get something started and I'll send you my Lemond Etape (Shimano Tiagra triple & new tires) to get the stable of rides started. Let me know...

[martinez]

This is a really sensitive subject to try and tap into when it comes to children.
They ultimately just want to be understood and belong, and feel like they are important to someone. And most times, this is a really hard conversation to have with some especially when they feel very embarrassed to express these types of emotions. I have nephews who are currently entering their teenage years and I try to keep contact with them as often as I can. I grew up seeing my uncles and aunts maybe once or twice a month with simply greeting them and then just hanging in their home. I want to create a closer relationship with my nephews than I ever had with my uncles and aunts because they are my brothers and sisters kids and I feel that it is my duty to be an extension of support for them. I constantly check on them and see how they're doing. I also like to take them out to movies, hiking, and have tried to get them into cycling several times although my sister is paranoid of them being hurt in the streets. With my nephews, since I have the benefit of being their uncle and some freedom as opposed to with the OP's students, I try and show em the better things that life has to offer. My sister with the almost teenage kids is the most strict from my siblings, so I try to offset it by being a more relaxed and adventurous uncle. I want to show them that despite the fact that their mom is strict with rules and school, there's beauty to be experienced in the world while also getting stuff done. I let them know if they ever have questions about ANYTHING, to not hesitate to ask. I am 26 years old but I am far from acting like an adult compared to most my age. I definitely feel like I have a young but extremely big heart. And I want my nephews to realize that growing up doesn't mean you have to grow up. Just means that sometimes you gotta put on those big boy pants...but then you can jump right into your dinosaur onesie as soon as you get home!

I feel like that wasn't too organized of a paragraph, but hopefully there was something you guys were able to get from it

[1centaur]

While it is often said, I don't think it is often enough believed by those of us who are not depressed: this is a physical illness. It's about brain chemistry. Because it manifests on the outside as feelings and attitude it seems to us like it can be fixed with advice on feelings and attitude, and when people commit suicide it feels to us like we should have said the right thing at the right time, but that is not true. I know exactly what Kirk007 means about accepting that someone may not still be with us when I come home. For those who live with depressed people, the cliched sequence from denial to acceptance applies.

There have always been depressed teens and teen suicides, regardless of society's problems. Because teens are moody anyway it's a little harder for adults to separate moody from depressed, and because teens have not been hardened by enduring a lot they may not have the fortitude to make it through to calmer waters. I concur that expressing love and support, as well as seeking treatment in various forms are all valid paths for outsiders to attempt, but medication is often useless and psychologists often are just professional versions of useless advice givers. We are not good at "fixing" the physical reality of brain chemistry. I have read that exercise is as beneficial to brain chemistry as anti-depressants, and I would encourage anyone who knows someone suffering from depression to try that avenue, but ultimately we may be pushing on a string and it's not our fault if the string is unresponsive to our efforts.

I have come to consider myself lucky that my brain chemistry is the way it is.

[djg]

It's terrible and sad stuff and there are no easy answers to this. Some people face very bleak circumstances and some have good support and many options and treatment and it is not enough -- they don't make it and it is hard to know what would have made the difference. There are circumstances -- an environment -- and there's outlook and illness and chance.

Everything people are saying about keeping kids involved and both offering and seeking support makes sense. In the end we muddle through with imperfect tools and imperfect information. And, as parents, we worry. My heart goes out to the kid's family.

[FlashUNC]

I can't speak to having those experiences as an adolescent, looking back I was lucky enough to be one of the cool kids whose high school experience -- while I thought it sucked at the time -- probably paled in comparison to the daily hell some of my peers faced.

As an adult? Therapy helped, a lot. Not for the "Oh, I do have unresolved issues with my mother" stereotypes. It was just good to have a detached third party who I could talk to about what I may have been going through at a particular moment, a trained professional who could help me figure things out.

Shame more health plans don't cover mental health like they do the physical stuff.

[soulspinner]

Lost a loved one to suicide and never saw it coming. Devastating. It affects so many so profoundly.........

[gemship]

Well I don't want to play down the significance of depression but there's an old saying that comes to mind " Idle time is the devil's workshop". I thought of that after reading this thread and thinking about kids that in my opinion to some degree spoiled rotten with time and the understated privilege of being left to their own devices. Never mind possibly being spoiled in other more mundane ways with electronic gadgets.