Looking at a MTB this year

[stephenmarklay]

and I have noticed the trend towards slacker head angles shorter stems etc.

The 2016 specialized fuse and stump jumper bikes have these features and also fatter tires.

Since I have been out of that scene I am not educated. I would love to buy a less than new bike but I am not sure if there are any other bikes that have been around a bit that have this newer geometry.

BTW I am looking at general cross country type of use.

[John H.]

How tall are you?
How rough is the area that you ride?
Would you describe your riding as xc or endure?
How much climbing vs. descending, technical riding?

I ask height 1st because a 650b is not the best bike for a tall rider unless the riding is really technical.
Area you ride is important because if it is not that rough, you don't ride drops, etc. You may not need a bike with such slack angles and big travel.
Everything is a trade-off. More travel and slacker angles are good for fast descending and technical riding- but not as good for all around riding with a good amount of climbing.
Also, a big fat tire like a Specialized Butcher or WTB Vigilante is really heavy to drag uphill.
Answer these questions and price point and that will narrow your choices.
I agree that you can double the value by buying a 1-2 year old bike.
Hard to beat a Santa Cruz Tallboy or 5010.

[Schmed]

I have a 69.5 degree HA hard tail and a 70.5 degree HA full suspension bikes.

I much prefer that handling of the slacker bike - climbing is as good, but descending is much better.

As always, I'd say you should ride a whole bunch of demos and see what you like!

[stephenmarklay]

Originally Posted by John H.

How tall are you?
How rough is the area that you ride?
Would you describe your riding as xc or endure?
How much climbing vs. descending, technical riding?

I ask height 1st because a 650b is not the best bike for a tall rider unless the riding is really technical.
Area you ride is important because if it is not that rough, you don't ride drops, etc. You may not need a bike with such slack angles and big travel.
Everything is a trade-off. More travel and slacker angles are good for fast descending and technical riding- but not as good for all around riding with a good amount of climbing.
Also, a big fat tire like a Specialized Butcher or WTB Vigilante is really heavy to drag uphill.
Answer these questions and price point and that will narrow your choices.
I agree that you can double the value by buying a 1-2 year old bike.
Hard to beat a Santa Cruz Tallboy or 5010.

Thanks so much. I am just about 6’0”. I really want a bike as adept at climbing as going down hill. A good cross country bike. I was thinking a hardtail 29’r with slack head angles.

[John H.]

I think a Stumpjumper is more bike than you need for desired application?
Maybe a Tallboy LT?

[Ken Robb]

What about picking up a nice 26" FS bike for little $$ since they are out of fashion? Riding it for a while to see what kind of riding you like best could help you decide what kind of bike you want to invest big $$ in from a position of knowledge/experience.

[stephenmarklay]

That is smart Ken. I have ridden mountain bikes and had a Cannondale back them. I have a super cheapo stump jumper that I bought for $100 last year.

I am in a pretty forward position on that bike and would like to be more upright and less over the front.

I really don’t need a great MTB bike but I do think some of the more recent changes in geo and wheel sizes might be worth pursuing.

[eippo1]

I was considering similar bikes and in the end went with a Specialized Camber. It was less slack and less travel than a Stumpjumper and was still full suspension, which is what I wanted. Perfect for a weekend warrior that would otherwise be taking a gravel bike on trails (which I do as well).

[ofcounsel]

The Specialized Camber mentioned above is a really good "non-racer" focused full suspension XC-trail bike. The Trek Fuel full suspension bike is another in that category. They're both fun bikes that are slacker than their racer brothers, the Epic, and the Superfly, respectively. Each also has just a bit more suspension travel than their racer brothers for more versatility. Yet they each retain good climbing characteristics.

Another bike to consider, if you have the budget, is a Pivot Mach 429SL full-suspension bike (they start at about $4000 or so, but are really well spec'ed at that price). The suspension design is really well thought out (Dave Wieagle's stuff always is, look him up). It's a super efficient climber that punches above it's weight when the bike points downhill.

I'd really recommend that if you can swing it in your budget, get a full suspension bike as your first "serious" mountain bike. They're just more versatile, and today's suspension designs are very efficient. And full suspension desgins are better for more technical climbs than hardtails.

I'm about to add a lightly used Stumjumper FSR Evo 29" to my stable of MTB's.

The Santa Cruz tallboy mentioned above is also a really good option, in particular when paired with a 120mm fork!

[stephenmarklay]

Thanks for the responses. Thanks for the FS tip. I really leaned toward getting a hardtail but honestly it makes sense to get FS. I would not consider taking the rear shock off of my BMW adventure bike and I like riding the same terrain.

Weight is always the consideration when I have to be the motor but I know weights have been coming down some.

[Tony]

Check out the Rocky Mountain Thunderbolt, excellent do it all fs bike. Tried one this weekend and compared it to my Ibis Mojo hdr 650 b, lighter and I think a better climber that can descend as nicely as the mojo. The mentioned 5010 is also a great choice.

[ofcounsel]

Originally Posted by stephenmarklay

Thanks for the responses. Thanks for the FS tip. I really leaned toward getting a hardtail but honestly it makes sense to get FS. I would not consider taking the rear shock off of my BMW adventure bike and I like riding the same terrain.

Weight is always the consideration when I have to be the motor but I know weights have been coming down some.

I have a Niner Air 9 RDO 29er carbon hardtail with an SRAM XX1 build. It weighs in under 21lbs with non-weight weenie tires. It's a great bike for when I just want to get out and hammer the local fire roads or when I want to hammer out a 1 to 2 hour ride on areas with no real technical stuff. But if I was doing 20 miles + or if I'm going to have some fun on the trail, I leave it at home and instead grab one of my full-sus bikes.

My Pivot 429SL weighs in at under 25lbs with a dropper post and burley tires and wheels, so weight's not a huge issue. It's got 100mm of travel in the rear, and 120mm up front. Skip a dropper post and swap some lighter tires in, and the same bike drops into the 23lbs range.

And you can get quite a few new XC-trail bikes in the 28-30 lbs range for under $3000.

[Oregonic]

Originally Posted by Schmed

As always, I'd say you should ride a whole bunch of demos and see what you like!

Very much this. I've ridden several bikes that were this close on paper, but handled very differently on the trail. Small differences like bar width, head angle, fork A/C and travel, seat angle, chainstay length, and ultimately wheelbase can really add up to create differing rides than what a geometry chart might indicate.

On a personal note, if I were looking at used 26er's to keep costs down, I'd seriously consider being patient and trying to find an old Horst-Link Turner 5-Spot. One of the most neutral, confidence inspiring mtb's I've ever tried. Plus the pivots are super easy to maintain when needed - basically just bushings with grease fittings built in. Might be able to find one fairly reasonably priced these days. Even better if you could find a frame or frame/fork combo and put on a modern 2x10 drivetrain. Just my 2 cents.

[ORMojo]

You could steal this from me . . . well, not steal, but I think we could arrive at a pretty great price (certainly compared to what I spent custom building it myself as one of the very first carbon Mojo owners in the world!). 73° seat tube, 69° head tube. Yes, it is a 26er, but it truly is adept at everything. I9 Enduro hubs to Mavic XM 819 tubeless rims, Fox 32 Float RLC, XTR, Thomson, and lots more upgrades!

I'm not really selling it . . . but then again, I'm not really using it anymore either, as I spend almost all of my mtb time on the Mooto X YBB.

[stephenmarklay]

Originally Posted by Oregonic

Very much this. I've ridden several bikes that were this close on paper, but handled very differently on the trail. Small differences like bar width, head angle, fork A/C and travel, seat angle, chainstay length, and ultimately wheelbase can really add up to create differing rides than what a geometry chart might indicate.

On a personal note, if I were looking at used 26er's to keep costs down, I'd seriously consider being patient and trying to find an old Horst-Link Turner 5-Spot. One of the most neutral, confidence inspiring mtb's I've ever tried. Plus the pivots are super easy to maintain when needed - basically just bushings with grease fittings built in. Might be able to find one fairly reasonably priced these days. Even better if you could find a frame or frame/fork combo and put on a modern 2x10 drivetrain. Just my 2 cents.

Thank you for the heads up on the this.