Today's ride: failing to help the guy with carbon wheels and broken spoke

[cfox]

I have limited riding time, and I enjoy riding my carbon wheels more than my aluminum wheels. I've never broken a spoke in my life, so I'm not going to let an unlikely scenario dictate my equipment choice. I also ride tubulars despite the compromise you make in dealing with flats (yes, I know how to deal with a tubular flat, but a flat on a clincher can be repaired to 100% utility). And, seriously, how many people carry a spare spoke with them on their Saturday morning 40 miler? I just want to go for a bike ride, I'm not interested in being a pack-rat road warrior equipped for the apocalypse.

[firerescuefin]

Originally Posted by cfox

I have limited riding time, and I enjoy riding my carbon wheels more than my aluminum wheels. I've never broken a spoke in my life, so I'm not going to let an unlikely scenario dictate my equipment choice. I also ride tubulars despite the compromise you make in dealing with flats (yes, I know how to deal with a tubular flat, but a flat on a clincher can be repaired to 100% utility). And, seriously, how many people carry a spare spoke with them on their Saturday morning 40 miler? I just want to go for a bike ride, I'm not interested in being a pack-rat road warrior equipped for the apocalypse.

This...I would also add that companies are building stuff that you can pretty much have your cake and eat it too. Enve wheels are designed to be ridden, not raced. I've ridden my 6.7s for the last two years, and they are no worse for the wear.

[djg]

Originally Posted by schwa86

Just checking in with the fast wheels crowd. On today's rise, came upon a guy standing by side of road. A rear spoke had snapped. Despite opening brakes up etc, fancy carbon wheel was so out of true that it was rubbing on chain stay. "Aha" I said, I happen to carry one of those kevlar spokes (and actually used it successfully when someone in my group snapped a spoke last year). But alas the fancy carbon wheels do not have nipples (required for use). Similarly, no external means of tightening/loosening spokes to re-true. He said truing is via internal means (eg take off tire and tube) , but he didn't carry the tool (and apparently this had happened once before). So, after wishing him well and msking sure he had cell phone to call a cab, we carried on. Any thoughts on anything else I should have considered? Is it right that there is a special tool involved, or should we have taken tire off and tried everyone's pocket tool?

The special tool involved was standing by the side of the road with a broken spoke . . . ba dum, dum.

Ok, that's unfair. Folks should ride what they want and if I'm typically prepared for this or that, it's nonetheless true that there have been more than zero rides when I haven't been. But really, you stopped, offered to help in the usual ways, made sure the guy had a cell . . . I don't know that there's anything else you could have done. Depends on the wheel, but it seems as if you did what you could.

[thirdgenbird]

Originally Posted by cfox

I have limited riding time, and I enjoy riding my carbon wheels more than my aluminum wheels. I've never broken a spoke in my life, so I'm not going to let an unlikely scenario dictate my equipment choice. I also ride tubulars despite the compromise you make in dealing with flats (yes, I know how to deal with a tubular flat, but a flat on a clincher can be repaired to 100% utility). And, seriously, how many people carry a spare spoke with them on their Saturday morning 40 miler? I just want to go for a bike ride, I'm not interested in being a pack-rat road warrior equipped for the apocalypse.

I just bought a 20/16 spoke wheelset using this mentality. I wanted to give some 55mm wheels a try. I went in knowing a broken spoke would end my ride, but most of my rides are solo and I've always got a phone on me. I've never broken a spoke (on a road bike) but if I do, I've got several people I can call.

The experiment may fail, but I don't have much to loose. The 32 spoke wheels I'm used to riding are staying around.

If you had stopped to help me, I would have thanked you and sent you on your way. I've got no expectations and it was my choice.

[John H.]

I see a few mistakes happening here
1.) Riders making poor wheel choices for their weight and/or riding surface.
2.) Riders continuing to ride wheels that they have had problems with. In my experience if your factory built wheel has broken more than one spoke there is something wrong with the tension. Simple spoke replacement will only get you so far. It will break again.
3.) The third mistake is riding with riders who make the above two mistakes. You are asking for failures that will make you wait, call for extraction, etc.
Demand preparation and reliability from your riding partners.

[benb]

The roads here are terrible, terrible, terrible here to the point I've moved up to never using tires smaller than 28c.

And yet everyone else is going the other way and always riding high zoot carbon wheels with next to no spoke and no rubber, and most of these people are out riding recreationally.

It has gotten so bad here with riding being about showing off money. I have been in and out of the shops lately trying on gloves as I'm having trouble with pressure on my hamate bone & ulnar nerve... they keep trying to sell me a high zoot bike with a carbon frame and fork and telling me my steel frame & fork is much to harsh and stiff... not noticing they are trying to sell me something that can't take tires bigger than 23c and I rode in with tires in the 28c-35c range. It's ridiculous since I've owned a bunch of those bikes and they were all jackhammer stiff compared to my current steel frame/fork/big tires.

[nate2351]

This thread is a flotilla of smug

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by kramnnim

Someone with Kysrium SL's would have been in similar trouble...

Just had that experience this past weekend: Big group ride, someone up front didn't point out a gigantic pothole, 5 (!) riders went through it, yielding 6 flats and 1 broken Ksyrium spoke. Actually, it wasn't broken: The end of a drive-side spoke simple popped out of the hub...but that spoke nipple was so tight that we couldn't re-insert the end into the hub flange. And of course no one in the group had a Ksyrium spoke wrench with them. Rider wound up hitching a ride back to town.

Later that same day I was in a bike shop and I saw a multitool that included a Ksyrium spoke wrench! Almost bought it, just so I could be That Guy.

[thirdgenbird]

Originally Posted by benb

The roads here are terrible, terrible, terrible here to the point I've moved up to never using tires smaller than 28c.

And yet everyone else is going the other way and always riding high zoot carbon wheels with next to no spoke and no rubber, and most of these people are out riding recreationally.

It has gotten so bad here with riding being about showing off money. I have been in and out of the shops lately trying on gloves as I'm having trouble with pressure on my hamate bone & ulnar nerve... they keep trying to sell me a high zoot bike with a carbon frame and fork and telling me my steel frame & fork is much to harsh and stiff... not noticing they are trying to sell me something that can't take tires bigger than 23c and I rode in with tires in the 28c-35c range. It's ridiculous since I've owned a bunch of those bikes and they were all jackhammer stiff compared to my current steel frame/fork/big tires.

This isn't what I'm seeing.

Bikes in every segment, road included, are getting more tire clearance. The 25 is the new 23 and clearance for 28s isn't abnormal. Things are returning back to normal.

I also wouldn't specifically call about "high zoot carbon wheels." Most of these new carbon wheels are wide. Very wide... 24mm to 26mm wide. Most traditional alloy rims are 19-20ish. As one data point, specalized's roval rims are over 24mm at the brake track and they are pushing 26mm tires. Carbon wheels also typically (not always) have deeper and stiffer rims that help make up for the loss of spokes. I'm not saying they are as good as, or better than, traditional wheels but many of them are very durable.

It's also not about money. High end wheels are pretty durable. Shoot, I talked to a guy that did lighter loaded touring on Campagnolo Eurus wheels and he wore out the brake surface without breaking a spoke. It wouldn't have been my choice, but it worked. My Eurus wheels have a lot of miles on them without issue and they have never needed trued.

I'm guessing you will find that it's the cheaper end of the spectrum that causes more issues. Many entry level alloy wheelsets don't have very many spokes. These are the ones that seem to go out of true or pull spokes through rims (bontrager and mavic for example)

As background info: all my road frames and forks are steel and 90% of my milage is done on custom 32 spoke wheels. I have to hand it to some companies though. Some of the shimano and Campagnolo/fulcrum wheels are remarkably resilient for having fewer than 40 spokes total.

[benb]

I didn't say anything about what the bike manufacturers are pushing or anyone on this forum in particular, just that I'm noticing carbon low spoke wheels are almost becoming the norm for just about anyone on a proper "road" bike.

I only road on a MUT yesterday.. still saw tons of carbon wheels. They don't serve any real purpose there, no one is going fast and the surface is rough.

No disagreement on the bikes that are being sold, the situation is a lot better than 5-7 years ago. I saw a pretty sweet giant carbon cx bike the other day with the Ultegra hydraulic disc setup.. $4800. Seems like a bike I would have enjoyed more if it existed back in the day than my Serotta. That bike is way out of my price range these days though.

[schwa86]

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

Just had that experience this past weekend: Big group ride, someone up front didn't point out a gigantic pothole, 5 (!) riders went through it, yielding 6 flats and 1 broken Ksyrium spoke. Actually, it wasn't broken: The end of a drive-side spoke simple popped out of the hub...but that spoke nipple was so tight that we couldn't re-insert the end into the hub flange. And of course no one in the group had a Ksyrium spoke wrench with them. Rider wound up hitching a ride back to town.

Later that same day I was in a bike shop and I saw a multitool that included a Ksyrium spoke wrench! Almost bought it, just so I could be That Guy.

That's why I bought the Kevlar spoke -- but then I wasn't that guy after all...

[thirdgenbird]

Originally Posted by benb

I didn't say anything about what the bike manufacturers are pushing or anyone on this forum in particular, just that I'm noticing carbon low spoke wheels are almost becoming the norm for just about anyone on a proper "road" bike.

I hear you there. I just bought a set of cheap takeoff wheels from a giant propel just to see what these things are all about. I've noticed a number of mid level aero bikes coming with deep section wheels. Standard road bikes with 105 and above also have pretty low spoke count shallow wheels.

Originally Posted by benb

only road on a MUT yesterday.. still saw tons of carbon wheels. They don't serve any real purpose there, no one is going fast and the surface is rough.

I used my giant front wheel (waiting on freehub) over the weekend and it rode surprisingly nice. I thought it rode better over rough stuff than my record to cxp33 wheel but didn't seem to give up any flex when sprinting. I couldn't tell you if this was a product of the width or some other element of the wheel.

Originally Posted by benb

No disagreement on the bikes that are being sold, the situation is a lot better than 5-7 years ago. I saw a pretty sweet giant carbon cx bike the other day with the Ultegra hydraulic disc setup.. $4800. Seems like a bike I would have enjoyed more if it existed back in the day than my Serotta. That bike is way out of my price range these days though.

The prices are unreal. some of the takeoff wheels are cheap however. I'm going to see what they are all about. I may move to a full carbon set after I try out my alloy/carbon hybrids. So far, I am pretty impressed. Trying out wheels is also cheaper and easier than trying out frames. Expect to see some cheap giant p-slr1 aero wheels in the classified this fall.

[victoryfactory]

Get AAA to add bike service option to their coverage!
An extra 10 bucks per year and they send a bike repair crew to get
you back on the road.

As with their car repair service, they will need to hire 3rd party companies to fulfill.
That's where You come in. Set up a fleet of mobile bike repair vans.
Petition AAA to use your service.

You can thank me when you make your first million

VF

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by cfox

I have limited riding time, and I enjoy riding my carbon wheels more than my aluminum wheels. I've never broken a spoke in my life, so I'm not going to let an unlikely scenario dictate my equipment choice. I also ride tubulars despite the compromise you make in dealing with flats (yes, I know how to deal with a tubular flat, but a flat on a clincher can be repaired to 100% utility). And, seriously, how many people carry a spare spoke with them on their Saturday morning 40 miler? I just want to go for a bike ride, I'm not interested in being a pack-rat road warrior equipped for the apocalypse.

Funny...some of the giganto bags I see on some bikes for their Sunday morning 25 miler...

[bpm]

Originally Posted by victoryfactory

Get AAA to add bike service option to their coverage!
An extra 10 bucks per year and they send a bike repair crew to get
you back on the road.

As with their car repair service, they will need to hire 3rd party companies to fulfill.
That's where You come in. Set up a fleet of mobile bike repair vans.
Petition AAA to use your service.

You can thank me when you make your first million

VF

I don't know if AAA offers this everywhere, but AAA Southern New England offers rides to stranded cyclists (current AAA members). They'll drive you and your bike up to 10 miles at no charge, up to 2 times per year. They'll drive you further than 10 miles but you pay mileage fees. I haven't had to use it, but it's nice to know I have options if I'm ever stranded and can't reach my wife or a friend to pick me up.