How to address the steel vs. carbon discussion?

[CunegoFan]

Originally Posted by ANAO

Whatever argument I use, he always comes back to: if steel were so superior of a material, why is the market dominated by carbon? Why aren't the pros riding steel?

Is your friend a pro? Does he even race? If the answer is no to those two questions then why would he would be best served by the same type of bike?

[sparky33]

Originally Posted by Mzilliox

You need to pick a new friend with better taste...

Exactly. If I don't like your bike then you are dead to me.

[Kirk007]

Originally Posted by mg2ride

The market is mostly carbon because currently carbon is a superior material. Even if it is only slightly better and only matters to pros, the bottom line is that it is a better choice.

If you disagree, try your hand at explaining why steel is better. As in better for the rider, not the builder.

This whole thread is a little silly but really?

Steel is better for me because I like how my Peg Marcelo feels more than any carbon bike I've owned or ridden. And my opinion is the only one that matters - for me. If I want a fast ride up or down hill I grab the Peg. If and when I ride a carbon bike I like better I'll buy it (if I can afford to and want to).

It all depends on the audience, their purpose and reasons for riding, yada, yada. There is no "better choice" per se without consideration of myriad factors including the rider and purpose. "the world's greatest" -- at what? at the the tour, at the track, on single track, for bike camping, for travel.

[Louis]

Why do you care so much about what your friend is riding?

Let him / her ride whatever s/he feels like riding.

[John H.]

Let's hear your pitch.
Sell me-
I don't need custom geometry-
Cost is no object for either bike-
I feel like a lugged steel bike is something I owned 25 years ago-

Originally Posted by ANAO

I've been trying to convince a friend of mine to get matching custom bikes for a little while now.

Whatever argument I use, he always comes back to: if steel were so superior of a material, why is the market dominated by carbon? Why aren't the pros riding steel?

Fisticuffs ensue.

So. Thoughts?

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by ANAO

I've been trying to convince a friend of mine to get matching custom bikes for a little while now.

Whatever argument I use, he always comes back to: if steel were so superior of a material, why is the market dominated by carbon? Why aren't the pros riding steel?

Fisticuffs ensue.

So. Thoughts?

You have a serious problem here (actually you have two problems but getting into why you feel this need to have matching custom bikes is none of my business ). Suffice it to say you must tread carefully since if you mis-step you could lose your friend and end up stuck with no one to 1/2 wheel or, even worse, end up on a carbon bike, which admittedly is not the end of the world but will, of course, make you wish it was since your friend's head, if he is like most friends, will swell so much the aerodynamic consequences will slow you both down to the point where his ceaseless "Told you so"s become audible and drive you mad.....which is when you go find a wife....but that is a whole other topic.

Clearly then it is crucial you not lose this argument.......let him get married and produce teenagers instead. Your problem, unfortunately, is that your friend is correct; pros do ride carbon bikes for good reasons, one being that they can go faster on them which improves their chances popping a wheelie at the finish line....the coolness thereby achieved serving as some small consolation for having to stand on a podium with protruding genitalia and holding flowers while being kissed by women who would rather be modeling but are not quite pretty enough to pull it off unless it involves getting fully naked.

Fear not, however, for there is a way around your predicament, although is not, sadly, what has been suggested so far by many well intentioned posters. True, as others have addressed, there are many good specious rationalizations that some of us use to justify enormous financial outlays spent for custom steel bicycles and the rest of us use to justify enormous time outlays spent online looking at bike porn and fantasizing about owning a nice bike..... but none of that will matter to your friend, simply because his focus is on going fast or, more likely, thinking he could go fast with much less effort if he rode a bike like the pros and was not saddled with such a stubborn, idealistic, out of shape riding partner. So your task is not to convince him he is wrong......no good friend and riding partner would ever admit that lest it set a bad example and lead to untenable future expectations.......rather it is to refocus his small wannabe mind on something entirely different and more important.......say the serious "health risks" of carbon frames.

"Health risks?" you ask, "What are you talking about?". Well obviously I'm talking about lying. Keep in mind this is your friend you arguing with. So get creative. What does he care about more than going fast, looking pro, or avoiding your snot rockets? What do we all care more about? OUR JUNK, DUH! Or more specifically, how well it works unless, of course, we are Irish in which case other concerns arise as well. So all you need to do is convince your friend that carbon bikes cause impotence, which shouldn't be too hard since clearly anyone dressing in lycra and wearing headgear that turns him into a giant lightbulb isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. Just ask him isn't he concerned by the recent double blind prospective controlled study published in the esteemed European Journal of Surgical and Medical Urology establishing that high frequency road vibrations transmitted through carbon but not steel frames to the ischial bones results in long term adjacent compensatory soft tissue fibrosis with resultant pudendal nerve entrapment and eventual painless but irreversible loss of erectile function. Probably best to point out to him that long term married guys were excluded from the study in order to avoid other confounding variables.

Provided Specialized doesn't sue you it should work just fine and in no time you'll both be enjoying the sublime ride of matching custom steel bikes assuming you can agree on more important issues like whether to have them built with disc brakes and if so hydraulic or mechanical.

Best of luck and I hope you found this helpful.

[unterhausen]

If I try to talk someone into buying something, and they give this much resistance, I punt. If you do somehow talk him into buying steel and for whatever reason he doesn't like it, it's going to be your fault. And there is a high likelihood that he isn't going to like it because he feels like he was railroaded into the decision. So let it drop.

[cnighbor1]

How to address the steel vs. carbon discussion?
Just wait till the CF bicycle crashes and breaks into a lot of pieces
Than stand there and state in a firm voice, ''I told you to buy steel"
Has your on your steel bicycle you can just ride away has the CF fan chases after swinging what ever is left of his bicycle at you
NO just say fine I like steel and your welcome to your poor choice in life

[velomonkey]

Originally Posted by ANAO

if steel were so superior of a material, why is the market dominated by carbon? Why aren't the pros riding steel?

Take him on a ride - him on carbon and you on steel - Drop him - freewheel back to him - say "Bro, do you even lift?"

Drop. Mic.

[makoti]

Try this : "Because I said so".
Worked for my Dad.

[shovelhd]

Tastes great

Less filling

[bironi]

Originally Posted by sparky33

Exactly. If I don't like your bike then you are dead to me.

Wow, that is pretty cold Sparky.

[Mayhem]

Originally Posted by mg2ride

If you disagree, try your hand at explaining why steel is better. As in better for the rider, not the builder.

Steel bends, carbon shatters. Steel feels lively and bulletproof, carbon feels dead and fragile. I bought in to the carbon craze a few years back with a TCR C2. Spent a year riding one and that was enough for me. Good bike but it wasn't for me. But I'm one of the tiny minority who actually prefers the feel of aluminum, though I'll always have a steel bike. No frame material has ever made a difference in my average mph.

[shovelhd]

Dead and fragile? You're riding the wrong carbon.

[nicrump]

delete