How to address the steel vs. carbon discussion?

[ANAO]

I've been trying to convince a friend of mine to get matching custom bikes for a little while now.

Whatever argument I use, he always comes back to: if steel were so superior of a material, why is the market dominated by carbon? Why aren't the pros riding steel?

Fisticuffs ensue.

So. Thoughts?

[FlashUNC]

Different strokes for different folks. Both can built into fantastic bikes, but carbon can admittedly be built into a lighter total weight, which is an easy selling point on the showroom floor.

I'm sure if I got a Crumpton or Argonaut or Calfee it would ride just as great as my alu Lobster or steel Della Santa.

The material is part of the equation, but its not the whole thing.

And, um, at least one Continental team has been racing on 953 bikes: http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/team

[guido]

Carbon bikes have a much lower per unit cost than steel bikes. They can be made by lower skill workers. For the big bike manufacturers this is a key way to drive profit.

The pros are sponsored by bike manufacturers who want to sell their profitable carbon bikes. So of course the pros ride carbon bikes...

It is all business.

[texbike]

The material is immaterial. As has been said so many times in the past, with current bike-building materials, the design is more important than the medium.

Ride what you like. If you like steel, cool. If your buddy likes carbon, that's cool too. Personally, I'm a fan of both (and titanium and aluminum). What's cool about each is that you can make bikes out of it and bikes are fun to ride.

Texbike

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by ANAO

I've been trying to convince a friend of mine to get matching custom bikes for a little while now.

Whatever argument I use, he always comes back to: if steel were so superior of a material, why is the market dominated by carbon? Why aren't the pros riding steel?

Fisticuffs ensue.

So. Thoughts?

Carbon frames dominate the market cuz it's sexy looking, high tech-ish and.....cheap to make. Why companies like to make it, sell it and sponsor bike teams with it. Steel is the best combination of 'things' you are looking for in a bike frame but, more expensive to make and it 'fails' the 'pickupatthebikeshop' test..even tho heavier than carbon, still not heavy but...in a bike shop, can measure only 2 things, weight and price..the rest is market-speak.

But mostly it's pretty cheap, both material and labor, to make a carbon bike frame.

These guys, even with free shipping, are still making money.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-UD-Full-...item4188eec9e6

[Vinci]

Pros ride what their sponsors pay them to ride and sponsors want to sell carbon.

Chances are that most of us don't know anyone personally that would lose a race on a steel frame that they would win on carbon. That sort of difference is so minute that you'd have to be comparing the best of the best head to head to notice a difference.

[MattTuck]

As guido mentioned, pro team riders are paid to ride carbon so that the sponsors can sell bikes.

There are reasonable reasons to ride carbon, but "I see a rider being paid to ride a carbon bike, and that makes me want to ride a carbon bike" is not a very compelling one. That's the kind of feeble minded thinking that marketing departments like to exploit. Tell your friend to stop being a consumerist sheep, programmed to do as the advertisers command. Tell him to make his own decisions.

[sandyrs]

why do professional athletes endorse subway, not chez panisse?

why do americans buy more budweiser than hill farmstead?

because they're "better"?

if you're fortunate enough to be in a position to buy custom, you don't have to blindly follow the larger market as dictated by giant (pun intended) corporations' economies of scale.

[christian]

Originally Posted by ANAO

Whatever argument I use, he always comes back to: if steel were so superior of a material, why is the market dominated by carbon? Why aren't the pros riding steel?

I'd say he's right.

[mktng]

Always thought itd be cool for there to be one race or stage where teams were on steel bikes. :P

[Kirk007]

Only one's butt can discern the difference, if any, and then its a matter of personal preference. Having just done a back to back ride with a Colnago C60 and my Pegoretti, there's no question but that there won't be a new 'nago in my house at the expense of the Marcelo.

It's not a question of better, particularly for us. There is no best, there are a lot of greats and when you get in that category it all becomes a matter of personal preference.

[texbike]

Originally Posted by mktng

Always thought itd be cool for there to be one race or stage where teams were on steel bikes. :P

Penny-farthings? Perhaps a team time trial on them?

[Kirk Pacenti]

Originally Posted by mktng

Always thought itd be cool for there to be one race or stage where teams were on steel bikes. :P

Yes, I've thought the same thing... take it a step further and make it like IROC; everyone rides the same bike.

Cheers,
KP

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by ANAO

I've been trying to convince a friend of mine to get matching custom bikes for a little while now.

Whatever argument I use, he always comes back to: if steel were so superior of a material, why is the market dominated by carbon? Why aren't the pros riding steel?

Fisticuffs ensue.

So. Thoughts?

Isn't "matching custom bikes" an oxymoron?

If the goal is to get truly custom bikes, than steel is often the better option, because it is far more economical to customize a steel bike than a carbon bike. Want a special personalized geometry? For a steel bike, the builder just has to adjust the jigging and fixturing. For many carbon bikes, it would require a whole new mold* - and molds are far more expensive than a single entire frame.

*There are customized carbon bikes, such as Parlee. But these types of bikes use construction techniques with more hand labor than steel bikes, so the custom carbon bikes usually cost more than custom steel bikes.

[thegunner]

who's this friend?

anyway, i've been looking at the crumpton that doesn't fit me in the classifieds for a while. if it were a 50, i'd be looking to sell my vamoots straight away.