Steelman Closing Shop?

[Keith A]

Originally Posted by mistermo

I'm "friends" with Brent and also Steelman Cycles on facebook, but don't see any notice. I see some concern by customers that he's disappeared, but nothing from him.

I'm not a big facebooker, so it's possible I'm not looking in the right place too.

It is on this page and can be seen in a comment from what was a potential owner...
http://www.facebook.com/steelmancycles

[David Kirk]

Originally Posted by victoryfactory

Funny how some builders have 5+ year waiting lists and some
struggle. Maybe the niche isn't as big as we think? Or becoming maxed out?

VF

I think it's easy to confuse a few builder's long queues with a pent up demand for handbuilt bikes. I know some new builders get into the game because they see that Vanilla has an X year wait and they think that they can get in on it and satisfy some of that demand. It of course doesn't work that way - the long wait for a Vanilla doesn't indicate unsatisfied demand for handbuilt bikes in general but for Vanilla's in particular. So the new guy jumps in and waits for the emails and calls to come rolling in and in most cases they just don't.

IMO it's just simple supply and demand.

dave

[texbike]

Originally Posted by victoryfactory

Funny how some builders have 5+ year waiting lists and some struggle.
VF

SOME builders are MUCH better marketers than others. Not necessarily better builders, but definitely better marketers....

Texbike

[Keith A]

Some discussion here about the situation if anyone is interested...
http://forums.mtbr.com/custom-builde...ly-757034.html

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

If Brent is done, that would suck. For lack of a better term, at the moment. Knew I shoulda pulled the trigger sooner. Quietly making beautiful frames is Brent's M.O. Had the pleasure of having a short convo with him, in emails, a while back. Very cool dude. Would be a shame.

[SamIAm]

I think its eminently reasonable to ask for a deposit. I don't know this Steelman fellow, but I find it very respectable that he is actually refunding deposits. That shows that he treated it like a deposit and not like income.

[dekindy]

Originally Posted by J.Greene

Because customers can be flakes or have problems arise too. I'm having to sell privately a frame and fork that a client had to back away from at the last minute when his business imploded. I don't feel like it's right to sell a new frame for cheap when I'm delivering frames at full cost. This frame is a unique color making it even harder to place. There has been real costs to my efforts up until this point. Because I'm a newer builder, and keep my backlog small, I don't currently ask for a deposit, but I think a modest sum to show the buyer's intentions and to hold the spot in line is more than fair.

Step back a second here. I know it is your business and livelihood but you are being a little touchy. I said before the tubes are ordered and the work begun, not after; of course it is appropriate to request work in progress funds or full payment. In fact, regardless of your status as a new builder it was foolish to not require funds before the work was begun.

I have heard of more than one instance where customers did not get the product for years beyond the expected delivery date and some none at all. The amount and length of time that I would have to pay funds in advance would be a prime consideration for me when selecting a builder.

[J.Greene]

Originally Posted by dekindy

Step back a second here. I know it is your business and livelihood but you are being a little touchy. I said before the tubes are ordered and the work begun, not after; of course it is appropriate to request work in progress funds or full payment. In fact, regardless of your status as a new builder it was foolish to not require funds before the work was begun.

I have heard of more than one instance where customers did not get the product for years beyond the expected delivery date and some none at all. The amount and length of time that I would have to pay funds in advance would be a prime consideration for me when selecting a builder.

I'm not touchy. I was just responding to what I thought was a good question. BTW, There is quite a bit of work involved before the tubes are cut too. I'm not complaining at all. My system works for me. I'm capitalized enough that I don't sweat the cash flow and the costs are built in. Every business deals with these issues. Framebuilders aren't special.

JG

[dekindy]

That is a reasonable amount and your que is reasonable for the fine reputation that you have. I have seen much more substantial amounts required and longer waiting periods that do not seem reasonable to me. OTOH if they can command that in the marketplace then I do not begrudge them from doing it as it is only business. However I would be inclined to shy away from that situation.

I did correct my original reply; see below.

Originally Posted by David Kirk

Thats'a good question.

The reason is simple - so both sides have some skin in the game. I ask for a $300 to hold the clients place in line - that is their skin. Mine is that I'm making cash flow and business plans based on the promise of that future business. Without predictable and reliable cashflow there is no way a builder can plan and do anything more than survive day to day.

For a short period many years ago I put people in the queue without taking an even small deposit - I just took them at their word. Unfortunately no matter how well intended they were and how much they really wanted a bike when I contacted them and told them is was time to go they bailed - one after another. Lesson learned. So now I ask for that $300 and it keeps to impulse purchases that will never be followed through on to a minimum and now I can plan ahead and run my business much more efficiently........and the customer is assured a spot in the queue. We both have something at risk.

dave

[dekindy]

Originally Posted by J.Greene

I'm not touchy. I was just responding to what I thought was a good question. BTW, There is quite a bit of work involved before the tubes are cut too. I'm not complaining at all. My system works for me. I'm capitalized enough that I don't sweat the cash flow and the costs are built in. Every business deals with these issues. Framebuilders aren't special.

JG

My bad, I looked at my original reply and should have worded it differently. I should have said before the work is ready to begin; in other words when my point in the que is reached that a firm delivery date can be given + or - a few weeks.

I don't have any hesitation for paying for work that is done; in fact I believe very firmly in it.

[David Kirk]

I think there are two subjects here - one is that it appears Brent is closing his doors and that is sad - he does very nice work and I hope he lands on his feet.

The other side topic is that of deposits. I don't know how to say this gently but if you don't have 100% trust in the guy I would suggest you not send him any money. It's that simple. Some builders have stellar reputations for a good reason - they work hard to make happy customers and this means engaging in communication, timely and accurate delivery and a solid product - and in my view these are the guys that it's worth the risk of sending money to and then waiting.

Before sending anyone money I'd search the various forums out there with the guys name and see what pops up. This will tell you all you need to know. The top guys will have very clean and professional reputations and the other guys will come with stories. I like doing biz with someone who doesn't have all the stories.

If you do this homework you can be assured that the guy you are trusting with your hard earned money will take care of you and know you are in good hands. And if the poop hits the fan they will step up like Steelman has and do the right thing.

dave

[fourflys]

just sold my Steelman because it was too big for me but it was indeed a very well built and riding machine... Sorry to hear the news but there are many other fine builders to be sure... always sucks to see someone have to close up shop though...

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Depression may be part of the issue. Again, cool guy, awesome builder, a true "artisan". And I, secondly, hope he lands on his feet.

[CaliFly]

This is true of any industry. Creating a culture and developing your brand are part and parcel of business building.

I was looking at Steelman before I found a Rock Lobster. I wish the owners nothing but the best.

Originally Posted by texbike

SOME builders are MUCH better marketers than others. Not necessarily better builders, but definitely better marketers....

Texbike

[rugbysecondrow]

I agree in concept, but I think there is a culture of suffering in silence regardingsome builders. In addition, there is a culture of shouting down somebody with issues. I ran into this with the issues I had with Paul Taylor. I googled and searched and almost nothing but good things. The deal went sour and I started a thread here suggesting we review builders for this very purpose. My one thread on Taylor generated no less than 10 PMs outlining all the issues folks were having with him, all of them asking I keep it quiet out of fear they would get neither a frame nor money back.

My original thread on this issue.
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showth...ghlight=taylor

Originally Posted by David Kirk

I think there are two subjects here - one is that it appears Brent is closing his doors and that is sad - he does very nice work and I hope he lands on his feet.

The other side topic is that of deposits. I don't know how to say this gently but if you don't have 100% trust in the guy I would suggest you not send him any money. It's that simple. Some builders have stellar reputations for a good reason - they work hard to make happy customers and this means engaging in communication, timely and accurate delivery and a solid product - and in my view these are the guys that it's worth the risk of sending money to and then waiting.

Before sending anyone money I'd search the various forums out there with the guys name and see what pops up. This will tell you all you need to know. The top guys will have very clean and professional reputations and the other guys will come with stories. I like doing biz with someone who doesn't have all the stories.

If you do this homework you can be assured that the guy you are trusting with your hard earned money will take care of you and know you are in good hands. And if the poop hits the fan they will step up like Steelman has and do the right thing.

dave