Flipping stuff - firearms division

[Dead Man]

Despite all the calls for a locked thread, this thread hasn't gone sour in 5 pages.

6, now. Why am I always the first post on the next page?

[Louis]

Originally Posted by rustychisel

Next time, I respectfully submit, you get out of the saddle and sprint to the top of the climb, and when he catches up you get to say "We Democrats always claim the moral high ground"...

Especially since he was one of few guys I ride with whom I could have beaten in an uphill sprint...

[jmoore]

I'm happy to discuss my love for hunting. But you have to admit that the question "why would anyone want to kill anything? Its disgusting" is not, IMO, the way to engender a thoughtful discussion on the topic. I have been in enough discussions in this topic to know where its heading.

I am a responsible and thoughtful parent. I am proud to be my kids father and proud to pass on my passions and family heritage to my kids. I know others do not share this passion, and that's fine. I am not asking anyone else to go. But I am not doing less hunting because some might find it unpalatable any more than I'm giving up riding because some/many think I shouldn't be on the road.

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[Tandem Rider]

Originally Posted by jmoore

I'm happy to discuss my love for hunting. But you have to admit that the question "why would anyone want to kill anything? Its disgusting" is not, IMO, the way to engender a thoughtful discussion on the topic. I have been in enough discussions in this topic to know where its heading.

I am a responsible and thoughtful parent. I am proud to be my kids father and proud to pass on my passions and family heritage to my kids. I know others do not share this passion, and that's fine. I am not asking anyone else to go. But I am not doing less hunting because some might find it unpalatable any more than I'm giving up riding because some/many think I shouldn't be on the road.

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Well put.

I would like to believe that we are all having this discussion because most of us have somewhat moldable opinions on the subject and are discussing it. I believe that if one's opinion cannot be argued thoughtfully and logically, then it needs to be revisited.

It seems to me that is what we are doing here.

[Bruce K]

Yup, so far, pretty good

I used to shoot and hunt back in my college days. Venison or rabbit cooked on the dorm suite stove was way better than cafeteria food.

Not interested in that any more but I understand it.

These days I am all about paper targets and competition and the mental relaxation I get from the focus, breath control, etc

I find my range time providing similar mental and emotional benefits to my bike time.

Now if someone could figure out how to burn the same calories .......

And biathlon is out if the question - rifle purchase cost is beyond my budget - similar to a good carbon road bike to a spectacular one.

BK

[AngryScientist]

this thread is going well and we appreciate everyone's insightful comments.

i have some great memories of piling into my dad's old beat-up station wagon, picking up a few boxes of shells, a case of clay birds and going to a local field converted to a range and shooting through boxes of shotgun rounds. neither he or i ever got any darned good at shooting clay birds launched from our old rickety launcher, but i can remember hearing those rusty springs tension up and toss the disks out like it were hours ago. good times, just me and my dad out in the country, good times.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by jmoore

I'm happy to discuss my love for hunting. But you have to admit that the question "why would anyone want to kill anything? Its disgusting" is not, IMO, the way to engender a thoughtful discussion on the topic. I have been in enough discussions in this topic to know where its heading.

I am a responsible and thoughtful parent. I am proud to be my kids father and proud to pass on my passions and family heritage to my kids. I know others do not share this passion, and that's fine. I am not asking anyone else to go. But I am not doing less hunting because some might find it unpalatable any more than I'm giving up riding because some/many think I shouldn't be on the road.

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Not a gun guy(altho I own 2), but I admire ANY parent that instills responsibility in a child, whether it be a rifle or any other 'tool'. Hunting isn't my thing either, don't like killing for sport or entertainment, but having a child follow a family's heritage into safe and thoughtful hunting or fishing..I have no problem with that.

VERY emotional subject..the best way to participate in this conversation is quietly, without much screaming whether it be for or against. Owning guns doesn't mean hunting, killing, wacko-ness. IMHO.

[Climb01742]

So...because a few mods find a very polarizing subject to their liking, they don't lock a thread that shows a photograph of a small defenseless bird of peace senselessly murdered in the name of a 'sport'? Fine. But then don't in the future lock others threads that may be not to your liking because there is nothing in America more political than guns. By allowing this thread to continue simply because you don't object to its divisive nature then you have given up your right the close threads in the future that some may find too political. You can't cherry pick your politics. Close them all or close none. Just don't let your personal beliefs be the deciding factor.

[fuzzalow]

Originally Posted by jmoore

I'm happy to discuss my love for hunting. But you have to admit that the question "why would anyone want to kill anything? Its disgusting" is not, IMO, the way to engender a thoughtful discussion on the topic. I have been in enough discussions in this topic to know where its heading.

Whether you choose to respond or not to respond is, either way, completely correct on your part IMO. You cannot be faulted because you are under no obligation to respond. You are not under interrogation and I agree that the aggressive manner that you were challenged is clumsy, rude and counter-productive to engender a thoughtful conversation.

However and if you take the view that there is also a wider audience reading and interested in your response, it is possible to take the high road and respond in measured tones to the question/challenge. For me, I prefer to not back down from a confrontation but to speak past the ill mannered histrionics to the wider readership in continuing a mature, considered conversation. I can make my points without resorting to schoolboy taunts and I trust you are confident of doing the same.

I am a responsible and thoughtful parent. I am proud to be my kids father and proud to pass on my passions and family heritage to my kids. I know others do not share this passion, and that's fine. I am not asking anyone else to go. But I am not doing less hunting because some might find it unpalatable any more than I'm giving up riding because some/many think I shouldn't be on the road.

What was just said here is a perfectly reasoned response to the awkward challenge up-chucked in an earlier post.

I know I said I was going to tap out of this thread but I wanted to continue our side conversation. Thanks for sharing your views rather than going radio silent. Your perspective as a hunter adds a lot to the conversation that I, and others, are interested in hearing what you have to say.

Originally Posted by Louis

Perhaps, but given that this is the Interwebs and not a couple of guys out on a bike ride, there are some issues (and we all know what they are: these days it's abortion, religion, same-sex marriage, politics, etc, a while back it was civil rights, the Vietnam war, etc) that are such hot-button issues that the odds of having a civil and constructive back-and-forth for any extended period of time are very low. One can always be pleasantly surprised, but previous history shows that this particular pot tends to boil over very easily.

Yes, there are topics that are prohibited as defined in Paceline's user agreement. For anything else, I believe the membership here is capable of reasonable discourse.

So I don't agree to pre-empt a topic just because the typical hooliganism of the interwebs tends to chaos. It is a very lousy choice to self-censure because you think the trolls, the flame warriors or the inarticulate will inevitably burn a thread to the ground. That is self-defeating.

[Joachim]

Originally Posted by Climb01742

So...because a few mods find a very polarizing subject to their liking, they don't lock a thread that shows a photograph of a small defenseless bird of peace senselessly murdered in the name of a 'sport'? Fine. But then don't in the future lock others threads that may be not to your liking because there is nothing in America more political than guns. By allowing this thread to continue simply because you don't object to its divisive nature then you have given up your right the close threads in the future that some may find too political. You can't cherry pick your politics. Close them all or close none. Just don't let your personal beliefs be the deciding factor.

While I m neither here nor there with regards to the content of this thread, I have to agree with Climb. He makes a very valid point. Either stick to the rules or change the rules, but don't bend them.

[Gsinill]

Originally Posted by Climb01742

So...because a few mods find a very polarizing subject to their liking, they don't lock a thread that shows a photograph of a small defenseless bird of peace senselessly murdered in the name of a 'sport'? Fine. But then don't in the future lock others threads that may be not to your liking because there is nothing in America more political than guns. By allowing this thread to continue simply because you don't object to its divisive nature then you have given up your right the close threads in the future that some may find too political. You can't cherry pick your politics. Close them all or close none. Just don't let your personal beliefs be the deciding factor.

^^^^
THIS

This did not turn ugly since it became a conversation of likeminded folks with the rest of the audience acknowledging that it's not worth arguing, leave alone trying to change anybody's opinion, IMHO.

[F150]

Originally Posted by Climb01742

So...because a few mods find a very polarizing subject to their liking, they don't lock a thread that shows a photograph of a small defenseless bird of peace senselessly murdered in the name of a 'sport'? Fine. But then don't in the future lock others threads that may be not to your liking because there is nothing in America more political than guns. By allowing this thread to continue simply because you don't object to its divisive nature then you have given up your right the close threads in the future that some may find too political. You can't cherry pick your politics. Close them all or close none. Just don't let your personal beliefs be the deciding factor.

April 18, 1775. Concord, MA. (Climb's hometown!) British advance on Colonists seeking freedom. Gunfire ensues, allowing both sides of a given topic, including this one, to express their opinion for the 239 years that followed. Generally speaking, I think we've done a pretty good job over the years expressing our opinions without getting out of hand.

"bird of peace"? Clearly a religious reference. Now you've done it!

[Llewellyn]

Originally Posted by fuzzalow

. For me, I prefer to not back down from a confrontation but to speak past the ill mannered histrionics to the wider readership in continuing a mature, considered conversation. I can make my points without resorting to schoolboy taunts and I trust you are confident of doing the same.

I'm assuming this comment is aimed at my earlier response which was not intended as a "schoolboy taunt", a description which I find condescending.

I made no comment on the OP's parenting style or skills, and FWIW I applaud his attempts to instill responsible gun skills in his child. It's the pastime of hunting that I find distasteful and incomprehensible.

As rustychisel mentioned upthread, it's a culture that most people in Australia simply do not understand. But I accept that I'm in a minority on this forum, and that's just how it is.

So I'm finished with this one.

[Climb01742]

I'd like to be clear about something...

While I find America's gun culture deeply troubling, I can sincerely appreciate the OP 's approach of education, training and personal responsibility. But can't everything that needs to be learned about guns be learned on a firing range shooting at targets or skeet? While we can respectfully disagree about the role of guns in our culture, up to this point the subject was perhaps within bounds here.

Where the thread crossed a line, in my view, was going to hunting and in particular showing a picture of a dove, who mate for life, being killed. Does that really have a place here? And isn't its inclusion unnecessarily provocative and insensitive to others? Not to mention the dove and it's now alone for life mate.

Silence on this subject is not agreement and as others have said it was out of civility and futility that I think other voices have not been raised. But the mods can't ignore the nature of this thread simply because it comports with their beliefs. Once that photo appeared, this thread no longer fit this forum's rules.

[jmoore]

My son cleaned and ate that bird for dinner that night.

Llewellyn, or anyone, feel free to PM me if you would like to discuss offline. I'm happy to shed some light on hunting and why I do it.

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