Recommend a Rim for Me

[Tony]

Originally Posted by cmg

rim weight, rim weight, rim weight... lighter rim, use more spokes, heavier rim, less spokes. faster wheel, minimize weight at the rim. look at deepest, widest rim that is the lightest. for a rear; Stans 400, HED Belgium C2,
A23 OC, Pacenti Forza Rim (MSW) , for a front wheel
velocity Aerohead, stans 340, kinlin 200 if you are 180 lbs go 28 or more in the rear and your on your own on the front. i'm over 180 and have cracked a few 24 spoked fronts, don't do it. minizing rotating weight at the rim is the goal. light tire, light tube, minimum rim tape or spoke hole covers. flame on

I'll add Easton R90SL, (454 grams) and the Boyd Altamont lite, (435 grams)

[Masaoshiro]

Araya SA30

[weisan]

Originally Posted by joosttx

I think the most important thing is not to over think it.

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[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by Bling

II really like the polished H + Son TB14's, but the lowest spoke count they're available in is 28. That is more than I need (I think). 20 in the front and 24 in the back seems sufficient.

Unfortunately, you can't determine the required number of spokes without considering the rim. The spokes and rim work in concert, and the in fact, only a small number of spokes are bearing the load at any moment. The role of the rim is distribute the load from the ground contact to the nearby spokes (the Load Affected Zone), and the stiffer the rim, the more widely it will distribute the load to the spokes. A stiff rim can distribute the loads across a larger arc of the rim (a larger LAZ), so the spokes can be further apart and still have enough spokes carrying the load. A flexible rim can only distribute the load over a small distance (a smaller LAZ), so the spokes must be closer together.

In other words, making a wheel stiff and strong isn't about the total number of spokes, its about the number of spokes in the LAZ: The smaller the LAZ, the closer the spokes must be, which requires a larger total number of spokes; and conversely, the larger the LAZ, the further apart the spokes may be, and so a lower total number of spokes may be used.

The H PLUS SON TB14 rim is relatively shallow, and therefore relatively flexible. For the same strength and stiffness, a larger number of spokes will be required than would be for a deeper, stiffer rim. Unless you are a lightweight rider, 20/24 spokes may not be sufficient.

[cachagua]

I think tires might affect the situation too, if we're looking at that level of detail. I'm not sure exactly what the effect of different tire sizes would look like, but if we assume that no tire at all will concentrate the load in a narrowly restricted area of the rim, then some tire will distribute it more widely, and more tire, more widely still...

However: for my own purposes, I don't engineer my wheels (or any of the rest of my bike) so close to the bone as that. Doubtless you could spec and build a wheel that would hold you up rolling, with no acceleration, in a straight line, on a polished marble surface, but if you didn't pee before getting on your bike it'd collapse. But that would require, as cautioned above, considerable over-thinking... and also, it's better to have a little margin of safety.

[Bling]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Unfortunately, you can't determine the required number of spokes without considering the rim. The spokes and rim work in concert, and the in fact, only a small number of spokes are bearing the load at any moment. The role of the rim is distribute the load from the ground contact to the nearby spokes (the Load Affected Zone), and the stiffer the rim, the more widely it will distribute the load to the spokes. A stiff rim can distribute the loads across a larger arc of the rim (a larger LAZ), so the spokes can be further apart and still have enough spokes carrying the load. A flexible rim can only distribute the load over a small distance (a smaller LAZ), so the spokes must be closer together.

In other words, making a wheel stiff and strong isn't about the total number of spokes, its about the number of spokes in the LAZ: The smaller the LAZ, the closer the spokes must be, which requires a larger total number of spokes; and conversely, the larger the LAZ, the further apart the spokes may be, and so a lower total number of spokes may be used.

The H PLUS SON TB14 rim is relatively shallow, and therefore relatively flexible. For the same strength and stiffness, a larger number of spokes will be required than would be for a deeper, stiffer rim. Unless you are a lightweight rider, 20/24 spokes may not be sufficient.

That's really helpful. I had not considered rim strength before. I have no knocked a rim out of true in the past 50,000k, but I often ride pretty deep wheels. I just want shallow wheels for the cool 'look'... Probably gonna go with Curtis Odom hubs, 32 spoke count on TB14's.

I'll update with pics later this season.

[Bling]

Any suggested lacing patterns?

[Gummee]

Originally Posted by Bling

Any suggested lacing patterns?

32h = 3x

If you're lightweight or ride softly, 28h in the front's OK too. It's what I'm running at 165-170. My TB-14s are 28/32

M

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by Bling

That's really helpful. I had not considered rim strength before. I have no knocked a rim out of true in the past 50,000k, but I often ride pretty deep wheels. I just want shallow wheels for the cool 'look'... Probably gonna go with Curtis Odom hubs, 32 spoke count on TB14's.

I'll update with pics later this season.

For spoke durability, it's not rim strength that matters, its rim stiffness.

Lacing pattern has little affect on wheel stiffness or spoke durability. However, it can affect hub durability. Standard flange hubs are usually most durable with tangential spoke lacing, and least durable with radial lacing, so for standard hubs, it is generally recommended to lace the spokes as tangential as possible. While spoke lacing patterns may be partially affected by rim and hub dimensions, in general to find the crossing pattern with the most tangential angle, divide the number of spokes by 8, and then round down. So for these common numbers of spokes:

36 spokes: 3 or 4 crossings
32 spokes: 3 crossings
28 spokes: 2 or 3 crossings
24 spokes: 2 crossings
20 spokes: 1 or 2 crossings
16 spokes: 1 crossing

[Bling]

You guys are awesome. Thanks so much for the advice!!