Real life benefits of carbon wheels?

[kramnnim]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

Sorry about that self made jinx. Good luck this weekend.

[sandyrs]

Why do people who buy Dura Ace drivetrains and carbon-railed saddles wring their hands so much over carbon wheels? As said above, all are candy. Your Dura Ace nets you some grams over 105, and carbon wheels net you a few watts compared to Ksyriums, but neither's going to flatten Ventoux for you or make you able to keep up with a group that would otherwise drop you. Just buy what you want and decide for yourself if it's worth it after you have some km's on the gear yourself. The beauty of the internet is that you can find stuff used and sell it if you don't like it.

[Hermes_Alex]

These guys boiled the answer down pretty effectively last year, as far as carbon wheels go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUdC3mrHcc8

[tuscanyswe]

Originally Posted by Hermes_Alex

These guys boiled the answer down pretty effectively last year, as far as carbon wheels go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUdC3mrHcc8

dont really care much for those pseudo scientific research tests. Esp not when they seem like a big commercial for the manufacturer of the tested product.

[benb]

Real world benefit they can look super cool if the rider also looks the part. It's really easy to scoff at a middle aged guy 50lb overweight on a carbon bike with carbon wheels though.

Still the biggest thing that keeps me from considering them is braking performance. You always here folks here saying the right combo of wheels, calipers, and pads makes them stop OK but my real world experience is group riding and seeing guys with various carbon wheels have scary moments where they clearly have inferior braking performance. Not an uncommon experience for me to be in a group and something happens and the group needs to stop quickly (car pulls out) and the group separates into the guys on alloy wheels who stop quickly and the guys on carbon wheels who have to dodge all the alloy wheel riders cause they can't stop in the same distance. One group ride this summer we were on a ~40mph descent and a car pulled out of us.. all the guys on the alloy wheels stopped 50ft shy of the car, one of the guys on carbon stopped 3ft shy of the trunk of the car, and he was not in the front of the group. Scary stuff.

Dura Ace has no safety implications over 105 or Ultegra AFAICT. (Note I have no bikes with D/A or Record level components anyway)

[Hermes_Alex]

Originally Posted by tuscanyswe

dont really care much for those pseudo scientific research tests. Esp not when they seem like a big commercial for the manufacturer of the tested product.

Well, the thread was asking about real-life benefits, and this was a bit more concerned with that question than the usual drag charts.

[spartanKid]

Originally Posted by tuscanyswe

I can feel the ease the lighter carbon wheels accelerates with and how nimble they feel at lower speeds.

That's almost entirely placebo. The rotating weight thing is absolutely a myth.

Neglecting air resistance, for an 80 kg rider, accelerating from 10 mph to 20 mph in ten seconds, on a 2000 g wheelset vs a 1000 g wheelset, is a difference of 267 W vs 255 W.

This is of course neglecting air resistance.

[ripvanrando]

Originally Posted by tuscanyswe

dont really care much for those pseudo scientific research tests. Esp not when they seem like a big commercial for the manufacturer of the tested product.

I don't use Zipp but I have a couple of 3-6 minutes stretches of road that I use all the time for intervals. My times are much faster using the aero carbon wheels. I thought the video was compelling.

I am always amused to see a top of the line bike, grouppo, and carbon hoops adorned with Gatorskins.

http://flocycling.blogspot.com/2016/...ire-study.html

[tuscanyswe]

Originally Posted by spartanKid

That's almost entirely placebo. The rotating weight thing is absolutely a myth.

Neglecting air resistance, for an 80 kg rider, accelerating from 10 mph to 20 mph in ten seconds, on a 2000 g wheelset vs a 1000 g wheelset, is a difference of 267 W vs 255 W.

This is of course neglecting air resistance.

Almost entirely placebo? You realize that almost all things related to cycling is almost placebo right?

Even when put into math its 15 or so watts for 10seconds and i do about 200 of those per day or something? It ads up. One thing i know is that they feel very different in a city environment than they do on the open road for me.

Id find it more likely for me to find the placebo effect on the open road at higher speed where i know they have a theoretical advantage but i dont.

[sandyrs]

Originally Posted by benb

one of the guys on carbon stopped 3ft shy of the trunk of the car, and he was not in the front of the group. Scary stuff.

I have no way of knowing whether or not this applied to the rider in question (or what wheels he was on) but decent carbon wheels can bring a rider who knows how to use the brakes on a bicycle correctly to a stop or skid easily. If you don't distribute your weight correctly when pulling the front brake, you won't stop as quickly, period. While carbon and alloy braking surfaces obviously do not behave identically, there is more to stopping well than rim material.

[sandyrs]

Originally Posted by ripvanrando

I am always amused to see a top of the line bike, grouppo, and carbon hoops adorned with Gatorskins.

I try not to be judgmental but this always gets me too. Nothing wrong with gatorskins per se, but putting them on a bike otherwise built around speed probably negates all of the benefits of the rest of the setup combined!

[benb]

Originally Posted by tuscanyswe

Almost entirely placebo? You realize that almost all things related to cycling is almost placebo right?

Even when put into math its 15 or so watts for 10seconds and i do about 200 of those per day or something? It ads up. One thing i know is that they feel very different in a city environment than they do on the open road for me.

Id find it more likely for me to find the placebo effect on the open road at higher speed where i know they have a theoretical advantage but i dont.

He was talking about a 1000g weight difference in the wheels to get that 15w difference. What's the actual typical difference between high end alloy clinchers and most of the aero carbon offerings? It's not 1000g. If you go for the climbing specific super light carbon tubulars then you're losing some of the weight difference.

[rando]

Oh goodie!! I just knew the third page was finally going to see the aero truthers assume their defensive positions.

[benb]

Originally Posted by sandyrs

I have no way of knowing whether or not this applied to the rider in question (or what wheels he was on) but decent carbon wheels can bring a rider who knows how to use the brakes on a bicycle correctly to a stop or skid easily. If you don't distribute your weight correctly when pulling the front brake, you won't stop as quickly, period. While carbon and alloy braking surfaces obviously do not behave identically, there is more to stopping well than rim material.

For sure there are lots of things going on. I know how to stop well, lots of MTB and motorcycling experience. So that guy could have had poor technique. He could have not taken the time to get the right pads for his carbon rims. He could have had carbon rims that weren't as good as other carbon rims. All I'm saying is IRL my experience has been observing quite a few of these close calls. Enough to influence me away from spending an extra $1000 to get the carbon rims instead of the aluminum ones.

[ripvanrando]

Originally Posted by sandyrs

I try not to be judgmental but this always gets me too. Nothing wrong with gatorskins per se, but putting them on a bike otherwise built around speed probably negates all of the benefits of the rest of the setup combined!

I agree. I try not to judge. Just because they are slow and painfully uncomfortable does not necessarily mean the owner is too lazy to fix a flat once in a while.