Sometimes I hate being called a cyclist.

[shovelhd]

Our Wednesday Night Worlds, which I no longer ride because they're not good training, are run a lot like yours. We stop at all lights and stop signs. The ride is neutralized on the state road sections with traffic. We also stick to double paceline only and attacks must come off the front. It has been going on for at least 15 years.

[gemship]

I am glad to live in a bike friendly place. It's not perfect but I don't get any reaction what so ever for rolling thru stop signs which I do all the time.

[redir]

Originally Posted by Mr Cabletwitch

I'm pretty sure I don't hate road riding since I've been doing it for 15+ years, and have 10s of thousands of miles under my belt, but what I'm trying to get at is that racing on open roads just isn't safe. Its not safe for cars its not safe for bikes. We have road races with closed courses for a reason. If you need to go out every week and race your bike against a bunch of other guys to prove who has the bigger !@#$ go right ahead but you should be held to the same standard as an automobile. I can't take my car out and break the law and use the excuse that I'm training for a race. If we want to be treated like a car we should act like a car and be held to the same standards. The reality is roads are built for and paid for my automobiles. To use a bike on a roadway is a privilege one that can be taken away pretty easily should the right people decide (This is not something I want to see happen)

And reddir this is in no way aimed at you. I think policing inside our own ranks and some friendly competition is great but when we risk the lives of others to prove who is faster and disregard safety its just stupid. Roads are for getting from point A to B whether its on a bike or in a car they are not and shouldn't be used for competition unless they are closed down.

There are only very few sanctioned road races that I can think of where the whole road is closed down, criteriums being the exception. I have to disagree that roads are for getting from point A to B too. Both car drivers and recreational cyclists enjoy the use of the roads for a Sunday drive in the country or a pleasant bike ride or even a nice walk. Also the road built for and pay for by automobiles argument I thought had been worked out ad nauseum.

At least in my state a large portion of the money for roads comes from the state's general fund as well as Federal subsidies. The rest comes from fuel tax and other user fee's. And besides almost every road bike rider with the exception of a few drive and own more than one vehicle which they regularly use.

Fact of the matter is that in my state it is not illegal to ride in groups and two abreast. The law states that when a faster vehicle approaches you from behind then when it's safe to do so you need to either yield to the right and allow them to pass or pull off the next way side.

We follow the rules of the road. And frankly on our 40 mile loop we generally see about 15 - 20 cars tops, maybe a farm vehicle or two. Our Wednesday fast ride is not about showing off or show casing who's the fastest guy's it's about camaraderie, learning, technique, tactics and training for our great sport.

[brando]

Originally Posted by Mr Cabletwitch

The reality is roads are built for and paid for my automobiles. To use a bike on a roadway is a privilege one that can be taken away pretty easily should the right people decide

shake my head

[gemship]

Originally Posted by redir

There are only very few sanctioned road races that I can think of where the whole road is closed down, criteriums being the exception. I have to disagree that roads are for getting from point A to B too. Both car drivers and recreational cyclists enjoy the use of the roads for a Sunday drive in the country or a pleasant bike ride or even a nice walk. Also the road built for and pay for by automobiles argument I thought had been worked out ad nauseum.

At least in my state a large portion of the money for roads comes from the state's general fund as well as Federal subsidies. The rest comes from fuel tax and other user fee's. And besides almost every road bike rider with the exception of a few drive and own more than one vehicle which they regularly use.

Fact of the matter is that in my state it is not illegal to ride in groups and two abreast. The law states that when a faster vehicle approaches you from behind then when it's safe to do so you need to either yield to the right and allow them to pass or pull off the next way side.

We follow the rules of the road. And frankly on our 40 mile loop we generally see about 15 - 20 cars tops, maybe a farm vehicle or two. Our Wednesday fast ride is not about showing off or show casing who's the fastest guy's it's about camaraderie, learning, technique, tactics and training for our great sport.

You make a great argument but I have to agree more so with the other poster. Simple fact this general fund and other subsidies you speak of really do come forth to get the great automobile out on the open road. Of course it could be different if the general populace all bicycled to work, school, etc, etc. Recreational driving...yes it exists till gas prices get to that breaking point I guess.

[rugbysecondrow]

Automobile is the vehicle of choice for nearly all commerce. The bicycle is an outlier, and important one, but an outlier. Franky, recreating on the road, making traffic our playground, is a privilege. I enjoy riding my bike, it is liberating, a terrific vantage point from which to view the world, but it seems it is becoming less and less worth it to participate in this activity when the community around is taking an FU attitude to others on the road. Here is how I view our roles: Entitlement vs Stewardship...and Entitlement is winning.

That might just be me, but it sounds like I am not the only one who sees more MTBiking and less road riding in his future.

Cheers,

Paul

[bikinchris]

Originally Posted by Mr Cabletwitch

I can't take my car out and break the law and use the excuse that I'm training for a race. If we want to be treated like a car we should act like a car and be held to the same standards. The reality is roads are built for and paid for my automobiles. To use a bike on a roadway is a privilege one that can be taken away pretty easily should the right people decide (This is not something I want to see happen)

.

Huh? The reality is that roads are paid for by taxes, with income taxes being a large part of what pays for roads. Gas taxes, property taxes and other taxes don't even come close to paying for pothole filling. Get educated before you make such statements.

Otherwise, I agree with your post. The wannbe racers need to quit playing on the roads. It is disrespectful and frankly illegal.

[shovelhd]

Originally Posted by rugbysecondrow

Automobile is the vehicle of choice for nearly all commerce. The bicycle is an outlier, and important one, but an outlier. Franky, recreating on the road, making traffic our playground, is a privilege. I enjoy riding my bike, it is liberating, a terrific vantage point from which to view the world, but it seems it is becoming less and less worth it to participate in this activity when the community around is taking an FU attitude to others on the road. Here is how I view our roles: Entitlement vs Stewardship...and Entitlement is winning.

That might just be me, but it sounds like I am not the only one who sees more MTBiking and less road riding in his future.

Cheers,

Paul

I think about this all the time, as more and more of my friends are getting busted up by motor vehicles.

[Gummee]

Originally Posted by rugbysecondrow

Automobile is the vehicle of choice for nearly all commerce. The bicycle is an outlier, and important one, but an outlier. Franky, recreating on the road, making traffic our playground, is a privilege. I enjoy riding my bike, it is liberating, a terrific vantage point from which to view the world, but it seems it is becoming less and less worth it to participate in this activity when the community around is taking an FU attitude to others on the road. Here is how I view our roles: Entitlement vs Stewardship...and Entitlement is winning.

That might just be me, but it sounds like I am not the only one who sees more MTBiking and less road riding in his future.

Cheers,

Paul

Gravel

For some reason, when they meet you on a gravel road, drivers are much nicer about passing and/or meeting you head on.

Get em back on the tarmac and bets are off.

M

[Gummee]

Originally Posted by bikinchris

Otherwise, I agree with your post. The wannbe racers need to quit playing on the roads. It is disrespectful and frankly illegal.

Disrespectful?

Excuse me?!

M

[SteveFrench]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

Yeah, I generally avoid group rides for this reason. So many cyclists are hypocrites when it comes to this issue. I'm not sure if it is pack mentality or something else, but it is a huge turn-off to me.

I'm glad you wrote that. I agree 100%.

[bikinchris]

Originally Posted by Gummee

Disrespectful?

Excuse me?!

M

Why? To act like the road is a private playground IS disrespectful. The road is not a playground. That doesn't mean people can't go for a fun drive or ride, it means that basic traffic law shows respect for other road users.

[redir]

Originally Posted by bikinchris

Huh? The reality is that roads are paid for by taxes, with income taxes being a large part of what pays for roads. Gas taxes, property taxes and other taxes don't even come close to paying for pothole filling. Get educated before you make such statements.

Otherwise, I agree with your post. The wannbe racers need to quit playing on the roads. It is disrespectful and frankly illegal.

As I said one of these so called wanna-be racers that used to be a regular on our Wednesday ride just finished his first Tour De France. It's not about image or want to be phoniness, it's about a University team and some local pro's and amateurs training, camaraderie and learning about our sport. It's got nothing to do with egos.

I really don't understand the wanna-be mentality. You don't have to be an aspiring pro to enjoy competitive competition in the amateur ranks. Racing requires training and training requires roads. Do you look at high school football athletes as wannabe football players?

Do you want to ban the sport of bike racing in the US?

[bikinchris]

Originally Posted by redir

As I said one of these so called wanna-be racers that used to be a regular on our Wednesday ride just finished his first Tour De France. It's not about image or want to be phoniness, it's about a University team and some local pro's and amateurs training, camaraderie and learning about our sport. It's got nothing to do with egos.

I really don't understand the wanna-be mentality. You don't have to be an aspiring pro to enjoy competitive competition in the amateur ranks. Racing requires training and training requires roads. Do you look at high school football athletes as wannabe football players?

Do you want to ban the sport of bike racing in the US?

Of course not. I was a licensed coach and a cat 2 official for years. I was USCF district rep for the state of Louisiana. I LOVE bike racing. I sucked as a racer, but that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it. I especially enjoyed racing track. I organized the first state cyclocross district championships as well as the first observed trials, ran the state, crit, TT and road race for many years. NO ONE can question how much I love cycling and racing.

It seems racers want to get bicycle racing (and training for it) banned in the US.

BUT

Training for racing does not need to involve acting like everyone else in the world should like the fact that they have no intention of following traffic law. Train hard, and when traffic law requires it, follow that. Acting like a self centered jerk breeds hate. It breeds posts online where people say hitting a cyclist would be worth the fine and jail time. It breeds policemen thinking cyclists getting hit deserved it. I can't point fingers at the no license and otherwise clueless bicycle riders who are breaking traffic law because they don't know any better. I am writing about racers who know better, but ignore traffic law and when a driver calls them out on it, they shoot the finger, scream obscenities and otherwise act like everyone should shut up because they are training here.
I feel so alone on the road stopping at traffic lights, stop signs etc. Getting the hate OTHER riders bred into drivers.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by gemship

You make a great argument but I have to agree more so with the other poster. Simple fact this general fund and other subsidies you speak of really do come forth to get the great automobile out on the open road. Of course it could be different if the general populace all bicycled to work, school, etc, etc. Recreational driving...yes it exists till gas prices get to that breaking point I guess.

High gas prices won't do it. Altho much smaller, driving rates in Europe are at an all time high, even at $7+ per gallon. Scarce gas will do it but then we'll have a whole nuther set of problems, particularly if scarce is permanent but it won't be in our lifetimes.