OT: My first motorcycle...

[ofcounsel]

Originally Posted by christian

I don't want to derail Nick's thread, but I do want to explore this a bit. What, exactly, do you guys mean when you "outgrow" a 250 or that it becomes "boring" or "wheezy"? (And of counsel, I recognize you qualified your statement.)

My experience includes, as I said earlier in the thread, over 160,000 miles of riding experience, about 19 years on bikes, and about 10 bikes owned, including a number of liter supersports, a big sport-tourer, a Harley, a couple of KTMs, a bunch of standards, etc. I've raced 125cc two-strokes and done a number of track days on 600s as well.

Over the course of years, I've owned the following, in the following order: Honda CB250, Yamaha XS400, Honda Nighthawk 450, Kawasaki Ninja 900, Honda GL500 Silverwing, Yamaha 1300 Venture Royale, BMW K1100RS, BMWFG650, BMWK1200RS, Triumph Sprint 955i, Triumph Daytona 675 (2 of them), Kawaskaki Ninja 250, and Suzuki SV650 race bikes (2 of them).

Like you, I've got more miles in the saddle than most, and like you, I've had an eclectic mix of standards, tourers, crotch rockets. I said "may" outgrow, because it seems as we get more competent as riders, we start thinking "man, wouldn't it be cool to have something with a little more ______________." The "__________________" is whatever we're into at the moment and think our current bike is missing at the same moment. Us motorcyclists are always searching for more "____________". And we "outgrow" whatever we're currently riding because it's not giving us enough _______________. So we move on to something else because we think that the next bike is gonna give us the ______________. At the beginning, the "___________" is most often acceleration and outright speed. That's why some people say, "oh, get the "SV650 because it's enough of a beginner bike, but it has more motor... so you won't outgrow it as fast." More motor = more speed and acceleration. Most people never ride enough to get past that stage.

Sometimes, however, __________ morphs into touring ability. Sometimes ________________ morphs into style, or handling, or practicality or track prowess. Right now, for me, ______________ has morphed into taking a racebike to 99.9% of it's limits. I can really do that with an SV racebike. But all of us have that personal journey to find the bike with the most ______________. For a lot of people, they start with small and move to "bigger and better" things. That's why I qualified my statement.

From the list and styles of bikes you've had, it sounds like you've been on a similar quest to mine. And like you, I realized over the years that the simple pleasure of riding a motorcycle, and just being in the moment when you are no longer searching for _________________, can be found on a little 250cc bike. You and I are fortunate because we've been around long enough, and survived over the course of miles to realize that.

Most motorcyclists never get there.

Edit* Sorry to go off topic, and hijack the thread, but I just have to show off my SV650 racebike, as it's literally one of the pimpyest, coolest SV's on the whole planet (IMHO). I'm a proud papa.

[BlackTiBob]

CBR 250 is excellent choice!
Others have said--look for used. I've been toying with getting one too.
Used CBR250 owners were asking very little less ($400) from what the
bargain dealers were selling them for new. Shop new and used in your
area and see what you find. There were many low mileage example where
owner had for 6 months and wanted to move up.

Another option, although pricier is the new Honda NC700X twin cylinder.
Honda designed for max mileage instead of max HP from given cc's. It gets
about 60 mpg---scooter type mileage but in a substantial motorcycle.

[avalonracing]

Okay, it's official. You must start on a 250.
Seriously though there has been a lot of good advice here, especially from "ofcounsel" (BTW nice SV).

If a smaller displacement bike is going to keep you safer and make you a better rider in the long run it really is a no-brainer. Don't let the knucklehead kids on 1000cc bikes shame you into a bigger bike. These are the same guys who will end up off the soft shoulder (or worse).

It's kinda like comparing a Mazda Miata to a Suby WRX or Mustang. You see a lot of really competent guys racing their Miatas in sports car clubs having a blast week after week... You also see a lot of WRXs and Mustangs being pulled out of ditches or away from trees.

That said, it is a perfect day here in Maryland and I'll be taking out my F800S later. Will I have a better time than I would on a CBR 250? Nope, because I'm going to be riding on local backroads where it is all about getting fresh air, picking a good line and leaning the bike. Would I have a better time if I was on a 1100CC race bike?... Nope, because I'm not racing other 1100cc bikes on a track.

[PaMtbRider]

I'll throw my two cents in and repeat a lot of what's been said. Obviously the MSF course is a must. I taught the beginning rider course for a few years and it is amazing how quickly some people can develop good riding skills with a little bit of instruction and feedback. There are a lot of parallels between buying a motorcycle and a bicycle. Neither one is a necessity and decisions are often based as much on passion for a particular style / brand then anything else. The 250 class of sport bikes will leave a lot of people wanting more in a very short time. Better brakes, suspension, more motor... For the cost of a new 250 a used SV650 would be my preference. I had a 99 SV650 and it was one of the most fun bikes of the 20 or so bikes I have owned. There are forums dedicated strictly to the SV with tons of info on ways to modify, improve the bike to your needs. Enjoy the process and keep us updated on your decisions.

[christian]

Well, said, ofcounsel. You're right that it probably takes years of experience to realize that sticky tires and proper suspension are always worth chasing but that outright speed (on the street) may not be.

BTW, how are the ergos on the Daytona 675? I might be interested in swapping my CBR1000RR for one...

Oh, and I would kill for GL500 Silverwing. Those are soooo cool. I've never ridden one, but a 3/4-scale water-cooled Guzzi with integrated bags, yes please!

Ofcounsel's progression of needs:

Honda CB250 ------- "I need something bigger"
Yamaha XS400 ------- "I need somewith with wackier mag wheels"
Honda Nighthawk 450 ------- "I need a sport bike"
Kawasaki Ninja 900 ------- "This did not score me Kelly McGillis. I need somewhere to put my lunch."
Honda GL500 Silverwing ------- "I like riding far. I must need a touring bike."
Yamaha 1300 Venture Royale ------- "Oy, this thing is a pig, V-Max motor or no."
BMW K1100RS ------- "Oh, it's a compromise! BTW, what's advrider?"
BMWFG650 ------- "I've made a mistake, I sold my mc for a practical dual-sport appliance!"
BMWK1200RS ------- "Hey, it's just like my old K-RS, but more top-heavy and even slower steering. I need to get a sportier bike."
Triumph Sprint 955i ------- "This thing still isn't sporty enough."
Triumph Daytona 675 (2 of them) ------- "Rather than throw all this money at my street bike, I should get a dedicated track bike. Ninja 250 spec racing is cheap."
Kawaskaki Ninja 250 ------- "Ok, this is not much fun on big Willow."
Suzuki SV650 race bikes ------- "Hey, a real racebike! Maybe I should actually try a 250 2-stroke..."

BTW, I can't talk. I owned a 1999 KTM 640 Adventure and a 2007 KTM Adventure. Yup, made the same mistake twice!

[Dave B]

I am in year two of motorcycles and from my perspective buying used is the smartest thing i didn't do. I bought new and regret it. Bikes were great, but I spent too much. My bike now was a demo and I got it for much less then new.

I think any bike that appeals to you is worth looking at. yes I get the low horsepower bikes like a 250, but it isn't the only way to go.

I don't recommend the more powerful one either, but there isn't anything wrong with more power. You still control how much is beign used with your wrist. I like the 0 - 60 speed more then top speed. I don't have any issues in track days, racing or looking like a power ranger.

I think I most likely will end up on a Harley, as I love the looks of a couple and my wife loves them and does not like the Ducatis. The more you can try before you buy the better it would be. I wish I would have done that, but I was really nervous to go on test rides. I am muchmore comfortable and love riding my bike. If it is dry out I commute on it as we only have one car. So yeah I ride when it is 19 degrees up to however hot it gets. I have fun on it, make sure I am wicked aware of what folks are doing around me and look over my motorcycle safety class info loads for refreshers.

go used it truly makes so much sense unless you have money to spend then get whatever.

[veggieburger]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

I just came through a pretty dramatic life experience, and long story short, i'm interested in getting on a bike.

Personally I'd like to hear more about the dramatic life experience!

[malcolm]

Originally Posted by ofcounsel

I've been riding motorcycles continuously for about 25 years. I've been racing motorcycles for a long while too (I used to race 600 class bikes and now I race SV650's).

My thought is that the 250 is a great bike to get your feet wet with. It will serve you well in learning throttle control, and are lightweight and easy to maneuver. The ABS option is really nice as well, as it will inspire confidence. The fuel injection makes it easy to start up and run. It will also get you great gas mileage. Plus, when you drop it (not if... when), it's generally a cheaper bike... so it won't hurt so much.

My thought is that you may out grow it within a year. But honestly, it's not a great idea to to go too big, too quick. Even little 250's can accelerate from 0-60mph as fast as a sports car. An SV650 is manageable as a first bike, but honestly, it's not as good of a "first bike" as the Honda 250. Smaller bikes will help you build confidence as you build your skills. Going too big too fast is the good way to get hurt or die. Honestly, I've seen my share of sane, level headed people who get in over their heads and end up dead.

So my thought is go for the Honda 250. If you want "a little" more power, but want to stay in the general size range, consider the Kawasaki Ninja 300. The MSRP is a few hundred more, but it's a really popular alternative (In fact, in this case it's the class leader, and the Honda's the alternative).

http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/pro...ns.aspx?id=717

And please, please, pleast DON'T skimp on gear!!!! If you're gonna commute, get yourself an Aerostich suit, a full face helmet (Arai, Shoei, and Suomy are leading brands) and a good pair of gloves (Held Gloves are my favorite). I can't emphasize how IMPORTANT good gear really is.

http://www.aerostich.com/suits

I agree with all this. I think the smaller bike is the better choice if you have no experience especially at your size with the realization you will probably want to upgrade fairly soon to more power.

One other thing invest in boots or at least something that protects you lower leg/ankle. I see guys geared to the nines with tennis shoes. I've lots of motorcycles accidents over my ER career that destroyed ankles and feet with no other significant injury and they were usually wearing street shoes.

[avalonracing]

Originally Posted by malcolm

One other thing invest in boots or at least something that protects you lower leg/ankle. I see guys geared to the nines with tennis shoes. I've lots of motorcycles accidents over my ER career that destroyed ankles and feet with no other significant injury and they were usually wearing street shoes.

Sidi baby! Between my moto boots and bike shoes I have six pair and I love them all.

[n_maher]

My 2¢ regarding the wheezy comment I made earlier - it is as simple as why one would choose any other car than a Toyota Yaris (or other subcompact) for commuting duty? For me, after riding my GS450 for two years and many thousdands of miles I found that I sometimes felt as though I was wringing it's neck on the highway. Back roads I had no issues - well in truth the brakes were a little wooden and the suspension was pretty old tech but from a power perspective it was fine. I also test rode a GPZ305 and it was even further down the power scale and that experience what I'm equating to the 250cc models being mentioned here. I also have experience on the small displacement thumpers used by the MSF and there's a reason that they use them. It's pretty hard to get yourself in trouble on them by snapping the throttle WFO.

So, long story short I full recommend the start small approach but my experience with the really small displacement motorcycles is that most owners quickly outgrow them and they can be difficult to resell. Of course I'm also 6'-1" and 200lbs and don't fit those bikes particularly well but I have no idea how I compare to the scientist in that regard. It's certainly also something that needs considering.

My moto history - GS450E (sold) -> Kawasaki Vulcan 750 (killed by an idiot college student who cut me off) -> Honda Transalp (sold because I was young and dumb, great bike) -> Honda CB750F (fun when it ran, which was almost never, junked) -> BMW R65LS (fixer upper that I sold to my dad) -> Yamaha FJ1200 (very comfy, huge tractible power, but heavy - sold to buy) -> Triumph Sprint RS (last bike I owned, 10 years, 25k, moto perfection in my book). The I had kids and the time to ride evaporated and it became more painful to look at everyday than to ride occasssionally.

[echelon_john]

I'm in the camp that thinks the SV650 will be more practical for more different kinds of riding; lots more stable on the highway, can carry more stuff/tons of accessories made for it. Not so much power as to be scary in the beginning, but a lot more when you get a few miles in and want it.

Smart to take the MSF course first. And of course, you'll need the gear and a commitment to wear it every single time. Aerostich is great for basics that are well made and won't break the bank.

Join and spend some time on the classifieds section over at advrider.com; lots of bikes pass through there, as well as good gear.

[ofcounsel]

Originally Posted by christian

Kawasaki Ninja 900 ------- "This did not score me Kelly McGillis. I need somewhere to put my lunch."

I was totally living out my Top Gun fantasies with that bike!!! It was the same paint scheme even And I would so be on a 250 two-smoker if the parts were still readily available. Perfect purpose-built race bikes!

RE: the 675, the ergos are a bit agressive for extended street riding. It has a bit of ass up, pressure on bars kind of feeling. But the ergos absolutely PERFECT on the track. I loved them, and you're right, I had one as a street bike and one as a race bike... Although, the street bike became a race bike after I binned the racebike

[bart998]

That 250 is too light for a longer commute like yours... try the new Honda NC700, more comfort and gets better MPG than the 250....

I've had... mini bike w/lawn mower eng, Honda SL70, Suzuki TM125, Suzuki TS185, Honda CB400 Hawk, Honda CB650S, Vulcan Nomad 1600.

[MattTuck]

[Gummee]

Originally Posted by christian

BTW, I can't talk. I owned a 1999 KTM 640 Adventure and a 2007 KTM Adventure. Yup, made the same mistake twice!

I LOVED my 03 640A. Put the biggest s--t eating grin on my face out of anything I've ridden yet. 'Hey! Where's THAT go?!' The bike was small enough to go see without thinking 'if I get down there, and run into problems, who's going to help pick up my GS-Adv?'

I rode a buddy's 950SE and it put the same s--t eating grin on my face, it just did it faster. Was doing 85mph on that test ride. Hmmm seems awfully buzzy. Ooooh lookie! Another gear! Woot! Bout that time I reeled it back in 'cause VA state troopers have a HQ near where I was riding. They're notorious for not having a sense of humor about stuff like what I was doing.

I'd buy another 640A. Course, I'd much rather have a Terra Mostro first just for the ***?! factor. Same way I'd do another ATK. This time I want the magic button!

M