Determine Set Back, beyond KOP

[Clancy]

Ok, so I know there's much debate out there and I'm not trying to start anything here except to try and get a deeper understanding.

First, I determine my set back by setting the saddle close to where I think it should be than tweak it while riding up an moderate incline, 4-5 degree, so that I have minimal weight on my hands resting on the top of the bars.

I also use seat posts that have set-back.

This always gets to where my knee is fairly close to over the pedal axle. But, I don't determine position by doing the standard knee over peddle, rather I get it close by doing that, but finalize it by riding.

This has worked for me but now I wonder if there's more to it.

Obviously too much will cause less weight on the front wheel and make for a light front end.

I wonder if I would be better off if I used a straight seat post, little longer stem, and place my weight further forward. Would this improve handling?

Can too much set back impact power transfer?

Does HT angle have an impact on set-back?

And, knowing there is a broad range, but is there a general range of set-back that's considered optimal? If one is outside that window does that mean something might be askew?

Last, I measure my set back by placing the bike with rear tire up against a wall. Measure from center of BB back to the wall, measure from tip of saddle to the wall, subtract the two and that's my measurement.

[ergott]

This is about as universally accepted as it gets.

http://kirkframeworks.com/2009/06/19/riding-tip-3/

[MattTuck]

Another good read.

https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com...or-road-bikes/


And I know that Ed (TiDesigns) has some similar ideas for setback and balance.



Mods, remember that post I made a few weeks ago about how the Bike Fit sub-forum is dying? This is the kind of post I was referring to when I said it should live on the GD for a while, but be archived in the bike fit section.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by ergott

This is about as universally accepted as it gets.

http://kirkframeworks.com/2009/06/19/riding-tip-3/

This.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

Another good read.

https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com...or-road-bikes/


And I know that Ed (TiDesigns) has some similar ideas for setback and balance.



Mods, remember that post I made a few weeks ago about how the Bike Fit sub-forum is dying? This is the kind of post I was referring to when I said it should live on the GD for a while, but be archived in the bike fit section.

I'll second that.

[Gummee]

Funny enough, in the Steve Hogg post, there's 'in front of KOPS' 'behind KOPS' and 'KOPS' in his pics (top to bottom) It may be completely random, but it's funny for a post claiming it isn't valid...

I've always wondered how one takes a fit customer from one place to another without a reference point. If you don't know where you're starting, how do you make changes and if those changes don't work, where do you reset to?

The reason KOPS has stuck around is it's a repeatable, fairly predictable **starting spot**

At least that's my opinion. I'm not a 'pro fitter' by any stretch.

M

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by ergott

This is about as universally accepted as it gets.

http://kirkframeworks.com/2009/06/19/riding-tip-3/

KOPS is not etched in stone nor brought down from the mountain top but a decent place to start. A small 'c' constant for sure...along with knee bend degrees, since everybody's legs/femurs/lower legs are different lengths from one another.

[dave thompson]

As OP ^^said^^ it's a starting point. Importantly is gives a reference point, KOP, that you can measure from, return to and start again. Kinda like reach for your legs.

[ergott]

I think centering the saddle rails on an offset seatpost is as good a starting point as any really.

[54ny77]

You might try the COBB method, which is Crotch Over Bottom Bracket.

[Clancy]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

This.

And this is exactly how I go about getting mine positioned.

But, in doing so, does this weight the front for best handling?

That's my question in relation to using the above method in determining set back.

[echelon_john]

I know funny, and *that's* funny.

Originally Posted by 54ny77

You might try the COBB method, which is Crotch Over Bottom Bracket.

[Tickdoc]

Can do 50 mph with minimum exertion.

Hmmm.

[bshell]

to do with pedaling forces on the knee and the joint's health and safety?

I was always under the impression that this subject was the starting point for position and fit but reading the thread it looks like I'm mistaken?

Which I would actually welcome greatly because I'm often anxious about how I'm loading my knees.

[Ti Designs]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...V78JY4jcM/edit