Took the aluminum plunge... not sure if I like it

[Clancy]

Originally Posted by sdrides

" I feel like I get way more out of tire selection and setup than out of frame material, but I've always felt like an outlier for saying that.

.

One of the biggest truths that is not stated enough. Tires, tires, tires is where it's at. Although this seems to be getting more attention with more and more talk of 25c-28c tires and brands like Compass.

since discovering Ti frames a number of years back, I really don't care to ride any other frame material. I'm tempted every once and awhile by carbon but Ti rides like no other - for me.

You strayed, now it's time to go back to your true love. She will forgive you.

[zap]

Miss the Klein that I used to ride. Very nice ride and performed well for me in sprints/short hard climbs.

Looking for a replacement but can't quite get into today's al frames. Just might purchase some carbon/ultegra kit to flog on the trainer and wc rides.

[tommyrod74]

It's down to rim width/tire size/tire pressure. The frame itself (assuming it fits well) is a far smaller contributor to ride quality.

And, really, you can't use an aluminum race bike for long rides? Multiple fast centuries on mine and zero problems whatsoever. 25c tires on wide rims at 85-90 PSI (I'm 140 lbs soaking wet).

[trener1]

This is in response to not being able to do long rides on aluminum.

Why not? I have a CAAD10 as my only (road) bike, and I have used it for anything from 45 minute crits to 70 mile hilly road races and 90 miles training rides.

I came from a carbon bike, I was on a Lemond full carbon frame that cracked on me during the summer back in 2012 and I needed a new bike in hurry so I picked up the CAAD for cheap, figuring I'd use it for a couple of months and then get a Carbon bike when I had more time to shop, and 5 years later it's still going strong.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by tommyrod74

It's down to rim width/tire size/tire pressure. The frame itself (assuming it fits well) is a far smaller contributor to ride quality.



And, really, you can't use an aluminum race bike for long rides? Multiple fast centuries on mine and zero problems whatsoever. 25c tires on wide rims at 85-90 PSI (I'm 140 lbs soaking wet).

I did plenty of long rides on a CAAD9 w DA7800 factory wheels and 23c. And older Kleins and Cannondales and Specializeds before that. It's all just what you get used to.

My reluctance with older aluminum or scandium now though is just structural fatigue and the crack n fail syndrome.

[ultraman6970]

I do not know if somebody said this, but in general lines if the bike is the wrong size or if the fit is wrong, it doesnt do what it designed to do and becomes a disappoint for the rider. Noticed a lot of.. yeah change the tires and stuff but if the OP has a weird fit or fit as a touring bike there is a chance the bike he got is not going to do what it suppose to do, thing that usually happens with high end stuff designed to go to the races.

[weiwentg]

Originally Posted by zap

Miss the Klein that I used to ride. Very nice ride and performed well for me in sprints/short hard climbs.

Looking for a replacement but can't quite get into today's al frames. Just might purchase some carbon/ultegra kit to flog on the trainer and wc rides.

You know, I lusted after Kleins back in the early 2000s, and I just saw a nice red/orange Quantum Pro out while riding.

I raced on an aluminum Giant TCR. I had a lot of really nice rides on that bike, and it was a very fast bike, but I don't miss it at all. It was a rough ride, and there was clearance for no more than 23c tires. While I buy that the tires and tubes can make more of a difference than frame material, I didn't have another option on that bike!

I remember doing Cone Azalia, a dirt road race in Southeast Michigan, before dirt or gravel riding was a thing. It was a flat, windy, spring road race. I remember it was a bone-rattling ride. And I honestly feel that if I had my current bike, a steel Vanilla roadie with clearance for 25c tires on wide rims (and can likely fit 28s, but clearance between the rear stays would be a bit tight), I'd have enjoyed it more than just for the glory of finishing it rubber side down. Oh, and I remember taking a Camelbak to the race, plus two water bottles. People probably sneered behind my back. Then we had a crash right near the start as the pavement transitioned to dirt, and bottles went flying everywhere.

Back to the original point of the thread: Yes, I would consider an aluminum CX or gravel bike in the future. As I said, I do buy that tires make a huge difference. I don't think I'd want an alloy roadie; if I were racing it would be aero carbon, and since I'm not, I'd want to go more for a fancy custom bike, so steel or titanium. That said, my steel Gunnar Crosshairs is hardly slowing me down.

[stien]

Originally Posted by ultraman6970

I do not know if somebody said this, but in general lines if the bike is the wrong size or if the fit is wrong, it doesnt do what it designed to do and becomes a disappoint for the rider. Noticed a lot of.. yeah change the tires and stuff but if the OP has a weird fit or fit as a touring bike there is a chance the bike he got is not going to do what it suppose to do, thing that usually happens with high end stuff designed to go to the races.

This!!

With enough seat to bar drop (as intended on these race machines) you'll be very happy. With more weight in the wrong places, the ride will become "meh".

[doomridesout]

Both bikes can get my contact points identical nearly down to the millimeter. I don't have a super aggressive fit but I'm not a 'faster-backwards' positive rise stem guy either. About 9cm of drop.

I think the biggest issue is the alloy bike as my "main squeeze". I've come to the conclusion that owning a lot of bikes with overlapping purposes takes up too much mental space for me, so I'd prefer to have a single bike designed around the 700x25 format. If I had the dough, the space, and the time to own both right now I wouldn't even think about it and keep the Allez for the 2 hour club hammer ride.

I'm also getting into randonneuring and ultracycling-- so my event rides start at 125 miles and go up from there these days. I like that kind of riding more than I do the club-ride hammerfest, and I don't race, even though I like doing these long rides with some zip and challenging myself to finish quickly. When you aggregate more than six or seven hours in the saddle differences in frame vibration damping really come to the fore.

One of these days I'll own more than one road bike again.

[93KgBike]

Wall thickness of tubing determines deformation resilience.
Tubing diameter determines rigidity, or stiffness.
Alloy composition determines weight.

Engineers strive to create an identical performance curve for a given frame size regardless of the material.

But it is each of us individually that experiences the ride. Qualitative differences are therefor as numerous as individuals.

All of my PR's on KOM's are on my CF bike, which is 6 pounds lighter than best steel bike, and 4 pounds lighter than my best AL bike. This year my highest 10 sec power output was 1100 watts, which turned me inside out, but didn't leave me with any impression other than, all these bikes perform beyond my ability.

But I must admit that alloys are more romantic to me than CF/epoxy, so I almost never ride the carbon bike. In my dreams, I'm on steel, climbing.

[45K10]

I have had steel bikes, aluminum bikes, Ti bikes and CF bikes and my favorite of all time was probably the Saeco Cad3 I had back in the early 2000's. Loved that bike. My next favorite bike doesn't even come close to fitting me but it is my wife's Moots Psychlo X.

The way a bike feels is such a personal thing and so many factors go into. The good thing is you have a sweet bike to go back to and you can always unload the Alum bike here in the classifieds.

[FlashUNC]

It's totally personal. My Lobster which is all day comfortable for me, even on unpaved stuff, is way too stiff for a fellow forumite who took it for a spin. We're all different.

[palincss]

Originally Posted by doomridesout

For a few years now I've heard people singing the praises of the fungible aluminum road racing bike. It's an ethos that appeals to me-- that some bikes are best treated as a tool. Production alloy bikes like the Cannondale CAAD line, the Specialized Allez, and more exclusive options like Spooky and Rock Lobster are often bandied about as good values that are more or less optimized for their use case (riding fast and hard on skinny tires).

I kept an eye on eBay since money is tight right now, and found a NOS 2015 Specialized Allez Smartweld (the 'nice' Allez that predated the aero seatube version), which I bought and duly swapped components from my Seven Axiom SL onto. Three rides in, and I'm not sold. The apologists say "There's certainly a little more road feedback but the responsiveness is worth it." For me at 140 lbs and much more interested in steadily pushing hard at threshold than following sprints and jumps, it probably isn't. I can tell it's stiffer, but I'm such a noodle-armed little bastard that I don't torque much at the headtube even when sprinting, and my ulnar nerves are feeling the headtube stiffness, even with the same fit as my Seven. Probably a no-brainer, in retrospect, but I had to scratch the itch. Has anybody else tried the new generation of alloy bikes and come away unimpressed?

I'm sorry, but I don't understand in what way you thought this would be an improvement on a Seven Axiom SL.

[ghammer]

it depends on various factors, as we all know. I dig alumínio, have had cannondale six, sold it, kept a caad 10 and a gaulzetti. The gaulzetti isp was a bitch, so i cut it off and now i cannot love the bike more. i like stiff machines that makes me feel fearless. i raced on carbon, steel, and al, and prefer al. Folks claim it's stiff, or too stiff, which can be true. But as other folks said here, wheels/tires/saddle/bartape and/or proper fit do more to provide comfort than the bike's material. the caad 10 and the zetti, although al bikes, handle differently, none better or worse, none wrong or right. both are light enough as i sit in the middle of the chart at 6' and 160lbs - not too light but far from heavy. i wear out parts, i have rarely broken stuff, used to race frequently, now w 2 kids i prefer to do fast-paced centuries or hammer rides when i can join one. as a matter of fact i *prefer* stiffer bikes, i like the connection to the road, and the gaulzetti specially, when set up with stiff wide-rim wheels, rides in a planted way that makes me feel like i'm on a rail. i recently got fulcrum quattro (35mm deep, 23mm wide), and they roll FAST, faster than the HED ardennes that were there (and i still own and it's still one of my favorite wheelsets). i keep tire pressure at 80-85psi and that is *plenty* for such a stiff bike. am not sure what folks look for in an al bike; maybe they expect something magical...but i'm sure that if you cover up a steel, al, and carbon bikes, have the rider test each one with the exact set up, tire pressure, wheelset, saddle, i think it might be quite indistinguishable. maybe the al would take off faster, but who knows. get your set up straight, make sure things fit and are in good order and there's no reason not to enjoy a nicely built zank/zetti/caad10, what-have-you.

[doomridesout]

Originally Posted by palincss

I'm sorry, but I don't understand in what way you thought this would be an improvement on a Seven Axiom SL.

In retrospect this seems pretty obvious. Although one explanatory note- the Seven was built for someone else and I would probably have put a couple more points on the stiffness scale if I'd had it built. I notice it moving around if I stomp on it.