Campy front shifting

[alexandrumarian]

Long story, sorry...hope it makes a little bit of sense. Unfortunately i do not know any campy-skilled mechanic near by.

My first bike came with Athena 2015. All was fine until a shifting incident sent the chain over and jammed it quite hard between spider and arm. The derailleur was slightly damaged (same for big ring teeth i suppose) and in the end i decided to get a new chorus derailleur and controls. After a fair bit of fiddling (my first home mechanic endeavor) i got it to work nicely, was lifting from small to big in 3 clicks, without fuss and rubbing.

Then i got a new fancier carbon frame and new chorus 2015 crankset. I moved over all other parts. I can't get the shifting nice enough. It does work decently on the road if i pedal and keep the lever pressure up for a couple seconds until the chain engages. But in the stand, it is horrible, the chain stutters trying to go up the big ring then falls off, sometimes beyond the small ring.

As a comparison, my wifes bike has a lowly tiagra group. I push the lever 3 clicks, let it go, lift the back wheel, then do a crank rotation and the shift is done, no noise no stutters no effort.

I can't believe a much pricier campy setup cannot do this. It seems i do not have enough cable tension, but if i open the inline adjuster enough to make a difference in stand shift, the low gear clearance adjustment is ruined resulting in massive cage rub.... The outer adjustment screw is actually fully loosened so no interference from it.

And on the other hand, the best shift in the previous mixed up config was with the cable less tight. I had it pulled only by hand, not pliers, followed by a half turn on the barrel and it was nicer than what i have now with the new frame and crankset, cable hard yanked with pliers.

One negative with the new frame is a short stay, 405 vs 415. Also cable run from bars to downtube is too long by a few cm, i moved it as it was from the old bike. Cable and sheath are new and well cut.
Any suggestions? I did carefully read and followed campys instructions (plus other tutorials) and the cage seems to be well aligned. Thanks...

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by alexandrumarian

Long story, sorry...hope it makes a little bit of sense. Unfortunately i do not know any campy-skilled mechanic near by.

My first bike came with Athena 2015. All was fine until a shifting incident sent the chain over and jammed it quite hard between spider and arm. The derailleur was slightly damaged (same for big ring teeth i suppose) and in the end i decided to get a new chorus derailleur and controls. After a fair bit of fiddling (my first home mechanic endeavor) i got it to work nicely, was lifting from small to big in 3 clicks, without fuss and rubbing.

Then i got a new fancier carbon frame and new chorus 2015 crankset. I moved over all other parts. I can't get the shifting nice enough. It does work decently on the road if i pedal and keep the lever pressure up for a couple seconds until the chain engages. But in the stand, it is horrible, the chain stutters trying to go up the big ring then falls off, sometimes beyond the small ring.

As a comparison, my wifes bike has a lowly tiagra group. I push the lever 3 clicks, let it go, lift the back wheel, then do a crank rotation and the shift is done, no noise no stutters no effort.

I can't believe a much pricier campy setup cannot do this. It seems i do not have enough cable tension, but if i open the inline adjuster enough to make a difference in stand shift, the low gear clearance adjustment is ruined resulting in massive cage rub.... The outer adjustment screw is actually fully loosened so no interference from it.

And on the other hand, the best shift in the previous mixed up config was with the cable less tight. I had it pulled only by hand, not pliers, followed by a half turn on the barrel and it was nicer than what i have now with the new frame and crankset, cable hard yanked with pliers.

One negative with the new frame is a short stay, 405 vs 415. Also cable run from bars to downtube is too long by a few cm, i moved it as it was from the old bike. Cable and sheath are new and well cut.
Any suggestions? I did carefully read and followed campys instructions (plus other tutorials) and the cage seems to be well aligned. Thanks...

Braze on and steep seatube? Tail of front der way further/above from ring than front? Bump on front der not in a place(too high) to grab chain and shift up.

If that's the case, sram makes a plate that will allow you to align the front der more closely to the arc of the chainrings...

[alexandrumarian]

Old frame was 73.5, new 73. Both brazeon but pretty different looking. I think new is more centered on the tube, old was abit more to the right (front wheel)
I will post a photo tommorow.
Cage is now at 2, maybe 2.5mm from highest tooth.
I should also mention that before i had campy cable now a jagwire elite (with proper campy head) which is polished and super smooth but about 0.1mm thinner than campy.
Im a few days I'll have time to work on it and plan to trim some from housing, put a campy cable and lower the derarailleur to 1mm.
I might also need that special washer. Currently in the most relaxed position, cable is almost touching the derarailleur (yes it is anchored over, not under the nib)

Another current thing that seems off is tgat i need two separate button presses (one long a second short) to drop on the small ring, before it went down with just one long press.

[Spaghetti Legs]

After years of Campy 10, I recently graduated to the 11 speed world. My Super Record group is the previous generation with the 5 arm crank, but I found it extremely difficult to get dialed in. Setting a really tight clearance, like 1 mm, on the cage is ultimately what solved my shifting problems.

[ultraman6970]

Campagnolo with the high end FDs fixed a non existent problem, maybe they wanted to get to the pair of shimano and their FD nightmares? :P

[alexandrumarian]

Here is the pic. Quite a larger gap at the lower end of the cage. On the other hand my wife's tiagra wraps the ring much much better.

I just got back from a ride, paid close attention on how it works. Worst as expected in largest sprocket, need to hold lever extended for about 1 second to lift during which it stutters a bit. In middle of cassette it goes up fast and smooth enough.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by alexandrumarian

Here is the pic. Quite a larger gap at the lower end of the cage. On the other hand my wife's tiagra wraps the ring much much better.

I just got back from a ride, paid close attention on how it works. Worst as expected in largest sprocket, need to hold lever extended for about 1 second to lift during which it stutters a bit. In middle of cassette it goes up fast and smooth enough.

Get the plate, I think it will help a lot. I think the other issue may be a flexy front der tab..common on carbon frames..may need this. One on te left..little lever to sit against frame for flexy, mostly on carbon frames, der tabs.

[Billybob62]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

If that's the case, sram makes a plate that will allow you to align the front der more closely to the arc of the chainrings...

This is discussed in the "Rotor Q Installation notes" here:
http://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/Front...w-To_3775.html

[alexandrumarian]

Thanks guys for the shim idea and the link. It might be be possible to temporarily test the effect by installing the derarailleur with a small improvised shim at the top. Wouldn't be road worthy but ok for a stand try.

As for the tab, it feels very solid when pulling on the derailleur body. It is not riveted like i've seen on some frames but glued/built in. I also have the S2 arm.

[alexandrumarian]

Here is an update if anyone was curious

After waiting in vain for a FD-CE011 to be shipped I decided to make one myself (starting from a small bracket).
It probably turned out a bit smaller than the original but still it pushed the cable out enough for it to just touch the outer pivot rather than bend over, so I am sure it made some improvement.

But more important, I discovered I had a huge mess with the inline barrel adjuster. Looking in the cable set and FD manuals, I saw no mention of it. So I just copied the position Shimano barrel used on my other bike: knurled part towards handlebars and no extra ferrule. Seemed to work...

Recently I looked again at the YT Campy video and realized I was only paying attention to the tuning section and not the first, where the Campy barrel is explained: knurled end towards frame, with ferrule added.

I took the thing apart and housing end missing the ferrule was destroyed with long loose strands and looking like it was "cut" with a rock. Wow.

Shortened the damaged outer, put it back together with the barrel in the proper spot plus ferrule, added the washer and the performance is truly excellent. Shifts up faster and with less effort, drops to small from the first click.

[thwart]

Originally Posted by alexandrumarian

... and the performance is truly excellent. Shifts up faster and with less effort, drops to small from the first click.

Good to hear you sorted it out.

Yep, that's the way my Campy bikes work. Front shifting is so smooth, quick and easy that I wonder why so many folks want to go electronic. That said, I've never ridden an EPS bike, so I have no idea of the amount of difference.

But... if it's not broke...