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  #61  
Old 12-08-2013, 04:35 PM
cfox cfox is offline
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Originally Posted by verticaldoug View Post
Currency Controls to prevent capital flight
Periodic devaluations vs the USD
27% inflation
declining currency reserves
toilet paper shortages (you know it's bad then)
should I continue?

All this in historically the 5th largest producer in OPEC. With under reinvestment into the oil infrastructure, production is probably set to cliff.
Care to buy some PDVSA bonds?

It doesn't really seem to matter who runs a country, the result is typically replacing the yoke of one taskmaster for the yoke of another.
Well said. Venezuela without oil is a big version of Haiti. And Cuba? What exactly will time tell? That a country whose citizens try to "escape" on plywood rafts is a great place? Both Cuba and Venezuela are/were run by thugs who appointed themselves rulers for life. There is nothing, nothing redeeming about that.
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  #62  
Old 12-08-2013, 04:46 PM
zap zap is offline
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Originally Posted by slidey View Post
However, from my minimal understanding I get the feeling that Venezuela under Chavismo economics has done reasonably well. Any thoughts on this?
The economy is terrible……..high inflation, price controls by beatings, confiscation of private property………….

The election…one guess.
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  #63  
Old 12-08-2013, 06:37 PM
slidey slidey is offline
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Na, not at all. By 'on the case' I was referring to speaking out against capitalism.

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Originally Posted by fuzzalow View Post
I don't know what you are referring to as "on the case". If you mean a general denouncement of antisemitism, that's all well and good but a mistaken inference to what I posted.
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  #64  
Old 12-08-2013, 07:00 PM
fuzzalow fuzzalow is offline
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Originally Posted by slidey View Post
Na, not at all. By 'on the case' I was referring to speaking out against capitalism.
OK, now understand your reference. But you are misquoting what the Pontiff spoke out against. Pope Francis was speaking against unfettered capitalism and its supportive structure in fostering economic inequality. That is quite a difference from speaking out against capitalism.

I agree with what was said by the Pontiff. Nothing greater to unleash the human endeavor than capitalism, however rapacious if left unchecked.
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  #65  
Old 12-08-2013, 07:04 PM
#campyuserftw #campyuserftw is offline
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Originally Posted by fuzzalow View Post
OK, now understand your reference. But you are misquoting what the Pontiff spoke out against. Pope Francis was speaking against unfettered capitalism and its supportive structure in fostering economic inequality. That is quite a difference from speaking out against capitalism.

I agree with what was said by the Pontiff. Nothing greater to unleash the human endeavor than capitalism, however rapacious if left unchecked.
The yang to Pope Francis:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoo...or-capitalism/
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  #66  
Old 12-08-2013, 07:15 PM
fuzzalow fuzzalow is offline
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Originally Posted by #campyuserftw View Post
Yeah, I read that too. There are lies, damned lies and statistics.

I agree with the Pontiff but short of his governance over the sovereign Vatican, I won't feel threatened that this could come to fruition at a local government near you. I would never deny the Roman Catholic Church its stature as a political power along with all the contradictions that entail with it also being a moral authority.
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  #67  
Old 12-08-2013, 07:16 PM
slidey slidey is offline
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I agree that Venezuela has had its own share of issues - but for all its faults there are two things that are a certainty:

1. The Venezuelan election system is widely regarded as incorrigible, even by its detractors.

2. Chavez brought oil under govt control, and with the revenues he actually did social good - set up schools, govt run hospitals, housing for the poor, etc.

A major criticism of the Bolivarian Revolution in Venezuela has been #2 above, that he generated huge revenues from oil and put very little back into it. Although if you refer to the cornerstones of Bolivarianism there is more similarities in there with pragamatic capitalism, than differences with the only exception being South American economic and political sovereignty, since the means to achieve this was cutting out access to oil to oil co's of foreign nations.

Why then in the US is there such a poor view of Chavez despite him being democratically elected thrice? Is it due to the sour taste left in the mouth of american legislators by the indirect US-aided coup attempt in 2002 (See Q5), during which the people protested to bring Chavez back to power hence giving unprecedented legitimacy to Chavez's policies even outside of the ballot box? Is it due to the fact that Venezuela's natural resources are nationalised, hence making it impossible for foreign oil co's to exploit? Or is it due to the proximity of Chavez to Castro? Is it due to the fact that for a long time Bolivarian economics was actually performing well, hence posing a threat to the overtly capitalistic intentions of Wall St and their lobbied puppets? All these are valid questions, and being unbiased by virtue of not belonging to any of the contested nationalities/interests herein I've found it rather easy to at least partially laud the Bolivarian economics.

At the present, yes there definitely is a crisis in terms of inflation in the country. Let's see where Maduro can lead the country.

By the way, this video is quite an unbiased, in my view, discussion of the Venezuelan economics.

Last edited by slidey; 12-08-2013 at 07:23 PM. Reason: Forgot to include a reference
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  #68  
Old 12-08-2013, 07:18 PM
slidey slidey is offline
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True, true. Couldn't agree more...unfettered capitalism is the extremist view of capitalism I was referring to my initial post in this recent thread as well. As a rule, one of the few I have, I believe that anything extreme can only be bad.

We're on the same page then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzalow View Post
OK, now understand your reference. But you are misquoting what the Pontiff spoke out against. Pope Francis was speaking against unfettered capitalism and its supportive structure in fostering economic inequality. That is quite a difference from speaking out against capitalism.

I agree with what was said by the Pontiff. Nothing greater to unleash the human endeavor than capitalism, however rapacious if left unchecked.
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  #69  
Old 12-08-2013, 07:32 PM
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wildboar wildboar is offline
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This is pretty fun to watch during normal weekday cash hours:

http://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/
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  #70  
Old 01-27-2014, 05:57 PM
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azrider azrider is offline
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http://money.cnn.com/2014/01/27/tech...html?hpt=hp_t2
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  #71  
Old 01-27-2014, 07:06 PM
ultraman6970 ultraman6970 is online now
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Money laundry is the main reason all the drug cartels and stuff are using bitcoin, no surprises in this news.

What could be really bad news for everybody that has money invested in bitcoin is if globally the currency is by law taken down and that could be a nasty hit to the drug people because from one day to another they could lost zillions together with the honest investors.

The coin is in place and doubt governments just because of personal interests in play, bitcoin will disappear from one day to another.
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  #72  
Old 01-27-2014, 07:14 PM
sg8357 sg8357 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultraman6970 View Post
Money laundry is the main reason all the drug cartels and stuff are using bitcoin, no surprises in this news.
[tinfoil hat mode on]
Why would any drug cartel trust it's funds to a US government operated
payment system ?

https://wallet.bitcoin.nsa.gov anyone ?
[tinfoil hat mode off]
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  #73  
Old 01-27-2014, 07:34 PM
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GuyGadois GuyGadois is offline
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I, for one, am exstatic about using FRN, bucks, greenback, dollars. It is so much easier to trade than pelts and more convenient than carrying gold bullion. Remember the days of the shootouts in the center of town, having to get your gold weighed and transported by a wagon? Oh the saddle sores. I am not sure what the interest rate was on beaver pelts but I am fairly sure it wasn't as much more than today's rate on the so called FRNs.

GG

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahneida Ride View Post
Actually frns = bitcons..

almost all frns are not paper (cash) ....
they are just data entries in a computer spreadsheet.

We are not FORCED to accept bitcons ...
We are COMPELLED to accept frns.


frn = non federal non reserve non note

The fed is a private central bank, you will not find it in the phone book
under government agencies. No more federal the fed ex.

It has no reserves ...

It's notes do not specify the terms of redemption, hence are NOT notes.
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  #74  
Old 01-27-2014, 07:38 PM
Ken Robb Ken Robb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyGadois View Post
I, for one, am exstatic about using FRN, bucks, greenback, dollars. It is so much easier to trade than pelts and more convenient than carrying gold bullion. Remember the days of the shootouts in the center of town, having to get your gold weighed and transported by a wagon? Oh the saddle sores. I am not sure what the interest rate was on beaver pelts but I am fairly sure it wasn't as much more than today's rate on the so called FRNs.

GG
This cracks me up.
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  #75  
Old 01-27-2014, 08:02 PM
Wilkinson4 Wilkinson4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyGadois View Post
I, for one, am exstatic about using FRN, bucks, greenback, dollars. It is so much easier to trade than pelts and more convenient than carrying gold bullion. Remember the days of the shootouts in the center of town, having to get your gold weighed and transported by a wagon? Oh the saddle sores. I am not sure what the interest rate was on beaver pelts but I am fairly sure it wasn't as much more than today's rate on the so called FRNs.

GG
Rapha beaver pelts were very pricey!

mIKE
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