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  #46  
Old 12-07-2013, 10:12 PM
SPOKE SPOKE is offline
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Originally Posted by Louis View Post
I'm glad this has been resolved so amicably.

Now, regarding the Affordable Care Act...
That's a hook without any bait!!!!!
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  #47  
Old 12-08-2013, 06:45 AM
fuzzalow fuzzalow is offline
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I have no issues with what Ahneida Ride posts re: Fed Reserve. I have attempted to engage a more substantive discussion on this to largely no avail - not done as baiting or to dismiss but as genuine, intelligent discourse.

I give Ahneida Ride the benefit of the doubt on this topic - I don't know the old history of the Serotta forum so maybe AR has done something extraordinary for this forum that earns special privilege. Kinda like the Stones could put out drek for decades but the run of Beggers/Bleed/Sticky/Exile earns them a pass for life.

In contrast to some, AR does not use this forum to advance his brand or tie-in to commercial interests, he just dislikes the Fed.

In contrast to some, AR's rants and rails are directed not at an individual but at an institution called the Federal Reseve Bank.

I interpret the overtone in accusations of antisemitism in what AR has chosen as quotations from noted bankers as a reach. These bankers did not what they do for reasons of religious acculturation but because they are bankers doing what bankers do.

I would agree that the tirades might be better used to further the discussion rather than broadcast disdain, but if that's the worst to tolerate from a fellow member here, I am OK with that.

I don't have to put anyone on the Ignore List, here. I read fast.
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  #48  
Old 12-08-2013, 06:55 AM
paulh paulh is offline
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Originally Posted by fuzzalow View Post
In contrast to some, AR does not use this forum to advance his brand or tie-in to commercial interests,
No skin in this game, but what are the banner logos at the top for then?
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  #49  
Old 12-08-2013, 07:09 AM
fuzzalow fuzzalow is offline
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Originally Posted by paulh View Post
No skin in this game, but what are the banner logos at the top for then?
I meant within the content and editorial bent of his postings to the General Discussion area of this forum. Sorry that I was not more clear about that.
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  #50  
Old 12-08-2013, 09:11 AM
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oldpotatoe oldpotatoe is offline
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Originally Posted by 54ny77 View Post
those stupid currency rants are tiresome on this place, a BIKE forum, and the guy hypes and sells his handlebar tape in exchange for the much maligned "frn."

how do you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-s-y?


does being an admin allow one to do this kind of crap, on so many threads? if a regular user did this, they'd probably be asked to take a time out.

the worst example was this thread. so inappropriate: http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=139187

unfortunately the forum software does not allow putting an admin on "ignore" so as to hide their posts from viewing. sure would be a nice fix.
Gotta agree. With being a 'moderator' comes a certain responsibility to not take advantage of that position. Get really tired of the 'FRN' stuff, love it leave it comes to mind. But just whinning about it on a BIKE forum seems misplaced.

Any .fedreserve/gov forums? Go there, write a blog that's selective, meaning I don't have to read(I wouldn't).

BUT, like I won't go to Wholefoods cuz the CEO is a fascist ......Ray isn't a fascist, but....being in business means being 'political' will reduce your customer base.

IMHO
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  #51  
Old 12-08-2013, 09:33 AM
ColonelJLloyd ColonelJLloyd is offline
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Originally Posted by oldpotatoe View Post
with being a 'moderator' comes a certain responsibility to not take advantage of that position. Get really tired of the 'frn' stuff, love it leave it comes to mind. But just whinning about it on a bike forum seems misplaced.

Any .fedreserve/gov forums? Go there, write a blog that's selective, meaning i don't have to read(i wouldn't).
+1,000
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  #52  
Old 12-08-2013, 10:35 AM
akelman akelman is offline
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Originally Posted by fuzzalow View Post
I interpret the overtone in accusations of antisemitism in what AR has chosen as quotations from noted bankers as a reach. These bankers did not what they do for reasons of religious acculturation but because they are bankers doing what bankers do.
Invoking the greed of the money changers has been one of cornerstones of antisemitism since there was a Temple to cleanse. And references to conspiracies led by the Rothschilds* have been used to whip up hatred of Jews for more than two centuries. Even still, I want to be clear that I wasn't accusing Ray of antisemitism. I was suggesting that his hatred of the Fed seemed to be blinding him to the implications of the lousy rhetorical company he was keeping.

In the end, I don't care that much. If people want to traffic in subtle (not very subtle, actually) antisemitism, it's just not the end of the world. Still, I thought Ray might want to be aware that that's how he's being read.

* In fairness, some members of the family were involved in a variety of shady deals.
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  #53  
Old 12-08-2013, 11:33 AM
fuzzalow fuzzalow is offline
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Originally Posted by akelman View Post
Even still, I want to be clear that I wasn't accusing Ray of antisemitism. I was suggesting that his hatred of the Fed seemed to be blinding him to the implications of the lousy rhetorical company he was keeping.
Yes, I know you were not accusing AR of antisemitism. No worries.

It just seemed that with some of mini pile-on going on against AR's anti-FRNs rhetoric, there was a desperate attempt to strengthen the case against AR by besmirching his argument in suggesting an overtone of antisemitism. And in fairness, AR's use of certain quotations just might leave the door ajar to opportune an accusation of antisemitism.

To get back on point to the Fed Reserve topic:

I read the catechism for anti-Fed Reserve dogma in the book "The Creature from Jekyll Island: A Second Look at the Federal Reserve" by G. Edward Griffin. The key movers and shakers in the creation of the Fed were J.P. Morgan and Senator Nelson Aldrich. I do not know of Aldrich's religious affiliation but J.P. Morgan was a prominent Episcopalian. So the ire might be better directed not at the ethnicity of the Rothschild's but attributed to "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism" as studied and rationalized by Max Weber.
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  #54  
Old 12-08-2013, 12:12 PM
slidey slidey is offline
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Originally Posted by akelman View Post
Even still, I want to be clear that I wasn't accusing Ray of antisemitism.
I wasn't entirely sure but glad to see that you weren't bringing in something as flimsy as religion into a pragmatic discussion.
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  #55  
Old 12-08-2013, 12:19 PM
slidey slidey is offline
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Originally Posted by fuzzalow View Post
So the ire might be better directed not at the ethnicity of the Rothschild's but attributed to "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism" as studied and rationalized by Max Weber.
The Church of England has been on the case for a while now, and more recently the Pope man has taken it up as well.

And if we're not restricting ourselves to the nether regions of mankind i.e. religion, then the opposing idea has been an equally unfortunate radical opposite i.e. communism. The unwillingness of the serpents in power (the politicians) to tread the middle path is more of a statement about the power of these extremists in each of our societies to sway political action, or inaction as the case may be, in their direction. However, from my minimal understanding I get the feeling that Venezuela under Chavismo economics has done reasonably well. Any thoughts on this?
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  #56  
Old 12-08-2013, 02:32 PM
Louis Louis is offline
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Originally Posted by slidey View Post
However, from my minimal understanding I get the feeling that Venezuela under Chavismo economics has done reasonably well. Any thoughts on this?
Having a massive amount of a super-valuable commodity like oil allows them to get away with quite a few questionable policies. On the other hand, all the folks that are beneficiaries of Venezuelan government charity (oil at cut-rate prices internationally, and staples at reduced prices for the less well of locally) do appreciate it.

Regarding Venezuela as a whole, the story's not yet complete. Time will tell, much as it will in Cuba.
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  #57  
Old 12-08-2013, 03:02 PM
malcolm malcolm is offline
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Originally Posted by Louis View Post
Having a massive amount of a super-valuable commodity like oil allows them to get away with quite a few questionable policies. On the other hand, all the folks that are beneficiaries of Venezuelan government charity (oil at cut-rate prices internationally, and staples at reduced prices for the less well of locally) do appreciate it.

Regarding Venezuela as a whole, the story's not yet complete. Time will tell, much as it will in Cuba.
How much time? I've not seen much of a standard of living in either country.
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  #58  
Old 12-08-2013, 03:09 PM
Louis Louis is offline
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How much time? I've not seen much of a standard of living in either country.
Might not be much: Venezuela has an election coming up soon - we'll see how Maduro and Co. do.
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  #59  
Old 12-08-2013, 04:21 PM
verticaldoug verticaldoug is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis View Post
Having a massive amount of a super-valuable commodity like oil allows them to get away with quite a few questionable policies. On the other hand, all the folks that are beneficiaries of Venezuelan government charity (oil at cut-rate prices internationally, and staples at reduced prices for the less well of locally) do appreciate it.

Regarding Venezuela as a whole, the story's not yet complete. Time will tell, much as it will in Cuba.
Currency Controls to prevent capital flight
Periodic devaluations vs the USD
27% inflation
declining currency reserves
toilet paper shortages (you know it's bad then)
should I continue?

All this in historically the 5th largest producer in OPEC. With under reinvestment into the oil infrastructure, production is probably set to cliff.
Care to buy some PDVSA bonds?

It doesn't really seem to matter who runs a country, the result is typically replacing the yoke of one taskmaster for the yoke of another.
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  #60  
Old 12-08-2013, 04:32 PM
fuzzalow fuzzalow is offline
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Originally Posted by slidey View Post
The Church of England has been on the case for a while now, and more recently the Pope man has taken it up as well.
I don't know what you are referring to as "on the case". If you mean a general denouncement of antisemitism, that's all well and good but a mistaken inference to what I posted.

What I was referring to with respect to the origins of the Federal Reserve was that the progenitors of the Fed were goyem. Antisemitism was never an appropriate slur to bring into the discussion in erroneously suggesting a Semitic underpinning on the true intent in creating the Fed.

Quote:
And if we're not restricting ourselves to the nether regions of mankind i.e. religion, then the opposing idea has been an equally unfortunate radical opposite i.e. communism. The unwillingness of the serpents in power (the politicians) to tread the middle path is more of a statement about the power of these extremists in each of our societies to sway political action, or inaction as the case may be, in their direction. However, from my minimal understanding I get the feeling that Venezuela under Chavismo economics has done reasonably well. Any thoughts on this?
Whoa, there is no intent in my mentioning Weber's book to get into an "efficacies of capitalism" debate. BTW Weber was a sociologist, not an economist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis View Post
Having a massive amount of a super-valuable commodity like oil allows them to get away with quite a few questionable policies. On the other hand, all the folks that are beneficiaries of Venezuelan government charity (oil at cut-rate prices internationally, and staples at reduced prices for the less well of locally) do appreciate it.
Oil is subject to world-wide demand and price fluctuations. There was no permanent order for the world economy to be reestablished at $110 per barrel crude oil. Crude is currently priced in the mid-$90 range. Brazil, Venezuela and Russia have all suffered contractions to their domestic growth rates as crude oil prices have lowered in world markets.

A nations oil wealth is not a panacea for national stability. I don't follow the political current events in Venezuela or Brazil but temporary buyouts from the government dole will not eliminate unrest if there is societal & political repression sanctioned by their governments. One need not look any further than the situation in Saudi Arabia to evidence stagnation, unrest & internal pressures in maintaining a repressive society subsisted by oil wealth. The only acknowledged, normally functioning segment in modern Saudi society is within the confines of Aramco, the state run oil conglomerate. For everyone else there is a life in the shadow of the state security police, the religious police and the denial of personal initiative.
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