OT: Need a new laptop

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by AJosiahK

So I've been without a working computer for a good 5 years. Have always gotten away with using one at work, library or my wife's work pc.

Ive not used to newer generations of PCs and am not opposed to it but have naturally gravitated towards Apple stuff and just like their OS etc better.

I tend to use computers mostly for music, photos, writting and of course internet research.

My future will likely include a new and different job and possibly even continued ed.

Is it worth the large sum of money for an Apple product such as a mac book or Mac air, or are there PCs out there that work jus as well for less dollars and less bling.

Whacha think PL pals?

These 'discussions' are always interesting. Kinda like shimano-Campag-spam, clinchers-tubulars, plastic-metal bikes..helmet or no...

http://www.apple.com/shop/browse/home/specialdeals

But wingging about a company's politics or where they are built(they are almost ALL build in Asia)..kinda makes me smile.

And for this,

Seeing less and less apples in cafes and at school

Guess it must be regional..here on the republic in the 6-8 coffee shops on just east Pearl...all you see is a sea of little white Apple logos staring at you. Some are 15-18 to one or even ZERO, no non Apple laptops(which is kinda sad, to see all these poeple head down, not talking)..

http://www.apple.com/us-hed/shop

Get a Mac, press on..easy.

[TunaAndBikes]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Guess it must be regional...

Probably; I'm an engineering student and go to cafes near to a med school, so there's a dominance of iPads, Surfaces (and actual, physical PAPER) rather than gleaming Apple logos.
Whenever I go to a different neighborhood, it's most probably a different story.

Get a Mac, press on..easy.

Definitely do that if you don't want to deal with the hassle of shopping around; you like the OS, you don't need lots of horsepower, you'll definitely be happy going this way.
Otherwise i'd still recommend to shop around and getting some sweet custom wheels with the spare $$

[OtayBW]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Get a Mac, press on..easy.

I was with you right up to this point....

Mac maybe tres chic in the Boulder cafe's, but they don't work for everybody....

[fuzzalow]

I'm indulging in just batting around replies to some of this because IMO it reflects endless bias and personal identity for how the world is viewed through the lens as/of an individual consumer. Which makes most of it idle chatter and mostly talkin' not about the product so much as it is talkin' about themselves.

Originally Posted by TunaAndBikes

Definitely do that if you don't want to deal with the hassle of shopping around; you like the OS, you don't need lots of horsepower, you'll definitely be happy going this way.
Otherwise i'd still recommend to shop around and getting some sweet custom wheels with the spare $$

I think the concept missing here is evaluating as though a consumer good where the best features and "horsepower", which BTW is meaningless to computer buyers much like lightness is meaningless to bike buyers, wins and drives a purchase decision. Because you choose to see your purchase decision as bifurcated between hardware and software with features and specs on each.

Most consumers will largely evaluate on the basis of the user experience and therefore look past the price. The price isn't overpaying for the hardware same as Dell but the cost of entry for a computer experience as pleasant as as non-techies perceive as not having to screw around with all the time for software glitches & things they're not interested in doing.

Just look at the cross section of customers in an Apple Store. Microsoft stores are late to the game and can't truly sell a user experience because they never engaged hardware-wise to facilitate & integrate their version of a technology experience to a consumer.

Originally Posted by OtayBW

Mac maybe tres chic in the Boulder cafe's, but they don't work for everybody....

Well, yeah no kidding but who is this everybody referred to here? Macs work for people enough and for enough people. So if Apple doesn't appeal to an esoteric fringe, no great loss.

I'm just having fun with batting stuff around and ideas and as I care very little about anecdotes.

[ftf]

Originally Posted by fuzzalow

Well, yeah no kidding but who is this everybody referred to here? Macs work for people enough and for enough people. So if Apple doesn't appeal to an esoteric fringe, no great loss.

Well, actually, Apple is the esoteric fringe, their market share is less than 5%, whereas windows is over 85% market share. I would wager that Linux will overtake OSX in the next 5 years, as Apple is obviously divesting in the traditional desktop and laptop markets, and rightly so, as they are shrinking. Apple desktop and laptop marketshare has never even come remotely close to windows market share levels, for all sorts of reasons.

[fuzzalow]

Originally Posted by ftf

Well, actually, Apple is the esoteric fringe, their market share is less than 5%, whereas windows is over 85% market share. I would wager that Linux will overtake OSX in the next 5 years, as Apple is obviously divesting in the traditional desktop and laptop markets, and rightly so, as they are shrinking. Apple desktop and laptop marketshare has never even come remotely close to windows market share levels, for all sorts of reasons.

The context in this thread is laptop choice for consumer, right? As such, my use of the term 'esoteric fringe" refers to consumers that choose not the Apple ecosphere and go Linux, Windows or whatever.

85% is the market at large which includes the corporate use, market share and inertia implied in all of that. That's a whole lotta desktops throughout all of business built over decades of Win-Intel domination.

Are there numbers on how new entrants over the last 20 years to computing are choosing Apple over Windows or vice-versa? Dunno.

But for most of the world, their exposure to computing is in effect through their interactions with their smartphone. And with the smartphone as new-age proxy for computer use - Apple is still the dominant OS. So we certainly agree on the downward curve as to overall desktop & laptop usage numbers as a proportion of the personal technology landscape. Heck, every online bank wants me to trade securities on my iPhone. What does the average consumer need a desktop for? Which means that demand curve degradation has laptops following just closely behind the desktop cousins.

No love or hate for AAPL or MSFT, I'm long both.

[Frikki]

If you're used to using OSX you might just want to pick up a used macbook, I've had an excellent time buying used macs on craigslist.

I'm currently using a ~2011 17" macbook pro which is perfectly satisfactory for day to day browsing, occasional video and sound editing and anything else I throw at it.

I picked it up for $500 on craigslist in 2014, and spent a minor amount of money on an SSD for it several months later

That said, I also knew when I was getting it that this was probably the last model where I could repair any non-catastrophic failure myself so there's that..
I also can't speak for how the build quality of newer machines compares to the older ones, my dog has thrown this one on the floor several times, but aside from a few dents it shows no signs of slowing down

[jruhlen1980]

Is it too late to play?

I bought a lenovo something or other a year ago and it was a hunk of poo almost from day 1. Then, a couple months ago, I bought a SSD and swapped it out (which took about 10 minutes), and it's like a brand new machine that I actually don't hate using.

Apparently the availability of affordable SSDs has breathed new life into many a crappy old PC.

[ftf]

Originally Posted by fuzzalow

The context in this thread is laptop choice for consumer, right? As such, my use of the term 'esoteric fringe" refers to consumers that choose not the Apple ecosphere and go Linux, Windows or whatever.

I understand how you are using it, but frankly you don't understand what esoteric means if you think that apple is the choice of the majority. Mac is the fringe product.

Originally Posted by fuzzalow

85% is the market at large which includes the corporate use, market share and inertia implied in all of that. That's a whole lotta desktops throughout all of business built over decades of Win-Intel domination.

Windows 10 alone has about 8 times the market share of all OSX products.

Originally Posted by fuzzalow

Are there numbers on how new entrants over the last 20 years to computing are choosing Apple over Windows or vice-versa? Dunno.

I do know, apple has never broken 10% market share in the desktop/laptop market, not even for a moment. Windows only recently has dipped below 90%, mostlikely due to a shrinking market.

Originally Posted by fuzzalow

But for most of the world, their exposure to computing is in effect through their interactions with their smartphone. And with the smartphone as new-age proxy for computer use - Apple is still the dominant OS. So we certainly agree on the downward curve as to overall desktop & laptop usage numbers as a proportion of the personal technology landscape. Heck, every online bank wants me to trade securities on my iPhone. What does the average consumer need a desktop for? Which means that demand curve degradation has laptops following just closely behind the desktop cousins.

No love or hate for AAPL or MSFT, I'm long both.

Well you are pretty much making my point, as I mentioned apple is divesting in the traditional desktop/laptop market because it's shrinking, due to phones and tablets. That doesn't change the fact that apple has never, not once, broken 10% in the desktop/laptop market, ever, they are the esoteric fringe, period, as they are, "intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest." Most people use windows, that's just a fact, like I also said there are many reasons for that, which you have touched on one, they dominate the corporate sphere.





As for which is the superior product, neither, Linux is.

[fuzzalow]

Originally Posted by ftf

I understand how you are using it, but frankly you don't understand what esoteric means if you think that apple is the choice of the majority. Mac is the fringe product.

C'mon, this is a conversation not a dissertation. We're just talkin' here, go with the flow & context of the conversation and make your point without rancor or parsing my sentences to get your "gotcha".

As for which is the superior product, neither, Linux is.

Linux user, huh? ^^

I agree but linux is probably overkill with too much baggage for the average bloke.

Nice talkin' with you.

[ftf]

Originally Posted by fuzzalow

Linux user, huh? ^^

I agree but linux is probably overkill with too much baggage for the average bloke.

Nice talkin' with you.

I use Linux and windows, depending on need. ElementaryOS is as easy to use as any other os available today, and as you'll note, looks much like OSX. In fact, OSX is built on Darwin, which is Unix, I don't hear many people complaining about how it is too complicated.

[TunaAndBikes]

I'm indulging in just batting around replies to some of this because IMO it reflects endless bias and personal identity for how the world is viewed through the lens as/of an individual consumer. Which makes most of it idle chatter and mostly talkin' not about the product so much as it is talkin' about themselves.

How else am I to recommend, if the product is flawless?
With all else equal, it comes down to personal experience, right?
I used to dislike working on PCs when I had a Mac as much as I hated using someone else's Mac when I had a Mac. You get used to your mess, that's all.
As a consumer, I've had good experiences with both PCs and Mac, and I do believe a consumer can take a step back and judge just how powerful a computer he'll need, with how much money he wants to sink in.

Most consumers will largely evaluate on the basis of the user experience and therefore look past the price. The price isn't overpaying for the hardware same as Dell but the cost of entry for a computer experience as pleasant as as non-techies perceive as not having to screw around with all the time for software glitches & things they're not interested in doing.

Since when is several hundreds dollars is something to overlook?
I mean; it's enough for a few months of groceries (at least for me, but as some of you might've noticed I am an overshopper).
I bet the OP could get by with a decent Chromebook, but i can't recommend as i've never used one.

I used to have a ton of glitches on my Macbook Pro and expect to have a few on my PC throughout the years, that's just how things are. after 9 months on my new PC, I haven't had a single software issue, except once when I threw a little bit too much at it

I'm just having fun with batting stuff around and ideas and as I care very little about anecdotes.

This thread is a battle between habits, i don't think there's anything else to say besides anecdotes if we exclude price.

I wouldn't recommend a Mac purely on the fact that OP's needs can be answered with something less expensive.

[shovelhd]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned. If you plan on using this laptop with Zwift, you need a heavy machine. My MacBook Air won't cut it with a 28" monitor, I have to use a Windows laptop with a dedicated GPU. If you go Mac I think you'll need a MacBook Pro.

[wpod]

I've really liked my recent Panasonic Toughbook and IBM Thinkpad lapr's. Both sized right( 11 & 12 inch screens, each running 2gb RAM ), easy to travel with and bullet proof, well engineered hardware. Built dual boot with Linux Ubuntu LTS and XP for development stability, easy to recommend either though never used for multi media or digital capabilities.

Over the past holiday season I became smitten by the build quality of the MacBook Pro coupled with their ridiculously low prices on the used market- due to the recent release of newer/flashier models makes them a crazy low value proposition.

Though I am not a iThing guy at all, I went with the gucci hardware, blew away it's virgin Sierra OS and loaded MINT18. Runs great, is rock solid, fully functional and with VirtualBox VM runs Sierra just fine giving me all the flexibility of the hw environment without the overhead of the iThing everything.

[Erik_A]

I use a Macbook Pro, booted to Windows 7 via Boot Camp. It has been great for 3 years, I love the screen quality.

If I was to buy a new laptop today, I would get a Razor Blade:

https://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade

I sat next to a game designer/ programmer on a flight who recommended the Razor Blade.