This madness has to end - 2 hit and runs in SF

[ajhapps]

http://sfist.com/2016/06/23/hit-and-...two_cyclis.php
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/articl...un-8321105.php

I'm angry. I'm sad. I'm lost for the right words. And this isn't about me or how I feel. This is about being a good person, a decent human being. How did we get to this point, where drivers can run cyclists down and flee the scene of the accident?

We lost 2 cyclists to hit and run drivers on a single day this week. Kate was a kind, funny, brilliant woman. Kate was a cyclist. She rode a Felt. She worked for women in tech and to grow renewable energy in the U.S. and abroad. A selfish individual blew a red light, hit her, and ran like a coward. Seriously, how did we get to this point? This must end. We can talk about safer infrastructure, defensive cycling, or who has the right to use the road, but this really comes down to being decent human beings who consider the impacts of their decisions and actions. Don't run red lights to save 5 seconds. Don't drive drunk. Don't text and drive. Don't leave the scene of an accident. Be good people.

Weekend rides are here. Look out for your mates on the road. Tell them you care about them. Be safe out there.

[txcid05]

Terribly sorry to hear. Well put. I had a customer telling me just today that she had a parolee (she was a probation officer) who hit a cyclist. He was paralyzed from the neck down, she fled and got 10 yrs in prison. He died a few years after the accident. I was upset all day after hearing that.


We are damn near targets for four wheeled vehicles.....

[Louis]

A related issue:

There have been some stories in the news recently about how to best program driverless cars' behaviour when they're faced with ambiguous situations. For example, the options might be to either 1) plow into a crowd or 2) drive the car and it's single passenger off a cliff. (a modern version of the old runaway trolley dilemma)

http://nyti.ms/28PDumv

I think given the choice between having a carefully designed and built driverless car behind me and an average driver, I think I'd take the machine.

[shovelhd]

Technology is great and all but charges need to be filed, cases brought to court, and appropriate sentences handed out. We need more ten year in jail sentences. The slaps on the wrist have to stop.

Thoughts for your friend.

[Splash]

We had one 2 days ago...

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/ma...25-gprr78.html

This guy was also on bail, killed the cyclist and rammed another car (parked) straight after killing the cyclist and moving the car some 80m.

This was all in a 50km/hr zone street.


Go figure...


SPlash

[ultraman6970]

Hope they find those bastards.

[dbnm]

This is really sad
https://medium.com/@zibbyz/i-am-sorr...35c#.qixuqcybx

[carpediemracing]

Originally Posted by Louis

A related issue:

There have been some stories in the news recently about how to best program driverless cars' behaviour when they're faced with ambiguous situations. For example, the options might be to either 1) plow into a crowd or 2) drive the car and it's single passenger off a cliff. (a modern version of the old runaway trolley dilemma)

http://nyti.ms/28PDumv

I think given the choice between having a carefully designed and built driverless car behind me and an average driver, I think I'd take the machine.

Interesting article. I recently saw "Dunlop", about the Dunlop family and their relationship with motorcycle racing (and specifically the Isle of Man TT). One of the things that came up is the "nun or the tree". You're going 180 mph on your motorcycle around a bend and you see a nun walking across the street in front of you. You can hit and kill the nun and have a chance of surviving or you can bail, hit the trees around you at 180 mph, and have zero chance of surviving because you'll be splattered across 50 meters of woods.

Which do you choose?

The racer being interviewed said that if you have to think about it then you're not ready to race. When you automatically, instinctively choose to hit the trees, you're ready.

Long before I started driving I read stories about car racing. In the old days if you crashed into something hard, like a wall, you were likely to get killed. We're talking Wilbur Shaw era. If you hit someone stationary they were likely to get killed (as well as you). So in the old Indy 500s if a car spun in front of you the "right" thing to do was to turn into the wall. This way you'd kill only yourself, not the other driver. It's hard to turn down off the banking because centrifugal force, so turning up into the wall was the best way to miss a stationary car. There are stories of drivers sacrificing themselves to avoid imposing hurt on others.

In society at some level these values are questioned now. Remember that guy that drove through the market in somewhere West Coast? He was convicted of stuff because when it came to hitting soft things vs hard things (consider what would cause more damage to you and your car as a driver) he chose to hit soft things. This is why he traveled so far in the market - he was purposely NOT aiming at stuff that would stop the car dead, like parked cars. He was, at some level, trying to preserve himself at the expense of others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_...s_Market_crash
I didn't remember but he killed 10 people and drove over 10 seconds while hitting people. Count 10 seconds. That's an eternity of slamming into bodies.

A guy that worked for me (meaning he was an employee) and who is a current racer just got knocked off his bike the other day. I told him and all my other friends that got hit by cars (8 in the last year?) "camera". A cynic would say that it's like videotaping the horse escaping out of the barn, it doesn't change the fact that the horse is gone (or you're on the deck) but I think it would go a huge way toward altering people's attitudes toward hitting cyclists/runners/whoever. If just those 8 riders (or however many) had videos of what happened and the clips got out over the internet/news (and what local news station would turn down the opportunity to air such a dramatic clip), it would help people realize just how vulnerable non-car people are on the road.

Cameras help police officers see what's happening, even if the officer doesn't want to see it. They offer proof of what was going on, if the rider ran a light or a stop sign, etc. They offer proof of speed (even if GPS is off you can see if a car is going super fast or I guess measure speed based on landmarks). It's much better than "well he did that and I did this".

In one local case a driver tried to pass 4 riders in a small town where the speed limit is 25 or 30 mph. Driver was going about 50 based on the fact that the riders were going about 30. Driver tagged the first rider, the other three fell when the first rider hit the deck. Driver stopped.

In another someone was riding straight through an intersection where he had a green light. A car turning left across him stopped, properly, since the car turning left had to yield. The car behind, not seeing why the first car stopped, drove around the other car and hit the cyclist head on. Driver stopped.

One a driver veered across the road, went into a ditch on the other side of the road, powered out of it, right into riders scattering trying to avoid the car that had randomly crossed the road and plowed into the ditch. Driver stopped although the car wasn't drivable.

There are a few where the rider didn't post much details of their incidents. I'm guessing that the rider contributed to their own accidents in those cases because, face it, cyclists break some "you really shouldn't break these rules" rules all the time.

Speaking of which... Cyclists need to follow the rules also. Until we all do we're at a huge disadvantage to those driving cars and such. I have no sympathy for those motorcyclists that do wheelies at 100 mph down the middle of crowded highways. That motorcyclist could be a dad, brother, whatever, but the fact is that by doing such things I lose all respect for them. I'm not going to go and try and kill them, but if they crash and die, well, at some level they had it coming. Likewise I'm sure most drivers have no sympathy for cyclists that run stop signs and red lights. Yes the cyclist could be a mom, dad, brother, sister, etc, but if that cyclist blows a red light and gets hit by a dump truck... well, it's not really the dump truck's fault is it? I don't have much sympathy for that cyclist either.

I said it elsewhere and it sort of shut down the lingering discussion about stop signs. Any rider who runs a stop sign is an idiot, full stop. Don't justify why you ran it, it's not a justifiable thing. Just say "**** you all, I don't want to stop for the goddamn stop sign" because that's the main reason a cyclist doesn't stop for a stop sign. If you ride like you drive then okay, fine, I understand you running the stop sign at 20 or 25 mph - you're an idiot and shouldn't be allowed to drive. But if you stop at stop signs in your car then you have absolutely no excuse for not stopping at stop signs on your bike.

[ultraman6970]

Must be frustrating trying to help and knowing from the beginning that you really can't do anything. Im sure this person wont forget and her/his life changed forever due to this.

Originally Posted by dbnm

This is really sad
https://medium.com/@zibbyz/i-am-sorr...35c#.qixuqcybx

[soulspinner]

So sorry.

[ajhapps]

Originally Posted by dbnm

This is really sad
https://medium.com/@zibbyz/i-am-sorr...35c#.qixuqcybx

Hadn't seen this, thanks for posting. Good to see that there are kind and caring people out there. I think that's been hard for many of us to recognize at a time like this.

[velomonkey]

I can't say anything on this topic.

This stinks (you wanna ban me then ban me as I would love, love, love for this to be my last post).

[BobO]

Originally Posted by txcid05

ft are damn near targets for four wheeled vehicles.....

Most drivers are good people. We hear news stories mainly about the bad ones. I try not to conflate increased exposure to one as an indictment of the other.

Conversely, the increased media exposure to these incidents are good for us.

Autonomous cars are a good idea for many. Prosecutions for distracted driving are better as far as I'm concerned.

[ajhapps]

Originally Posted by BobO

Conversely, the increased media exposure to these incidents are good for us.

Autonomous cars are a good idea for many. Prosecutions for distracted driving are better as far as I'm concerned.

Exactly. We need people to start recognizing the impacts of bad decisions, including aggressive prosecution of dangerous behaviors.

[taylor_walker]

This is so sad, as were the deaths in Kalamazoo, and countless others. Getting older and having my own kids makes these senseless killings more acute, more personal. I urge all of us to support our local bicycle coalitions, and push them to make more strategic partnerships with law enforcement, MADD, and other groups where we all have overlapping concerns and can effect change out on the roads. My heart is heavy for these families. Let's do our part to get involved and make positive change.

Taylor
SF, CA