Serotta lays off 40% of workforce, planning shutdown

[fa63]

I guarantee you that is not a stock Blue paint job.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. .. if it's one of Charles' bikes!

But I'm honestly wondering more about the company. Don';t know a lot about them.

Do they make their carbon here? I had assumed not. Do they actually develop specs and then have those frames popped out in Taiwan or China?

BBD

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by BumbleBeeDave

. .. if it's one of Charles' bikes!

But I'm honestly wondering more about the company. Don';t know a lot about them.

Do they make their carbon here? I had assumed not. Do they actually develop specs and then have those frames popped out in Taiwan or China?

BBD

This. Sold them for a while, when they were part of PSI. Glad they have changed owners, the old 'crew' couldn't have been much worse.

[Charles M]

Yep, it's a positive for the new guys.

And yes, they develop much like Specialized do through R7D of proto's and lay up and then put them into production. They're not buying and re-badging.

The bikes so far have been solid. The Axino is reasonable ride comfort leaning to stiff. Good weight spec. The AC model handles well, is stiffer still and has a pretty dang good aero section. Their TT/Tri stuff continues to perform. And that paint is from creativecycleworks.com.

[funny story but that bike was sitting at Cyclologic and the owner of the actual Jacky Ickx driven, Le Mans winning GT was working with them and said "I own that car"... Kinda jaw dropping : ) ]



Back on topic,

I would suggest that the continued thought that High dollar price points are dead/dieing to the point where a company can't sell a model like that is bullsh !t

A load of $10K+ bikes were sold this year and again, there are a few places selling bikes every day in the 6-7-8+K Frame and fork range.

That you can't afford em, don't want / appreciate em or you're a builder that can't / doesn't sell at that price point doesn't mean you can wish away a category that really hasn't dropped off much.

More specifically, the backlog at several shops making custom at that price point is still there...

Hell, there are several stock models at that range.

[rnhood]

Good points Pez. If a wheel company can thrive selling $6K wheels then surely a frame company can survive selling $6K frame sets. Just have to use good business sense and offer truly standout and/or unique products.

[fa63]

Well, therein lies the problem. $6K frames usually have an aura of exclusivity/superiority associated with them, mostly through pros riding said frames (think Cervelo RCa, Pinarello Dogma, etc.) or effective marketing. With Serotta, you essentially have one man saying "this is a great frame; take my word for it" because there aren't really any pros/etc. out there riding and winning on them. Like they say, win on Sunday and sell on Monday. It seemed before the shutdown announcement that they were trying to get back into putting racers on their frames; it is too sad we didn't get to see if that was going to work for them.

[Charles M]

You don't have to pay the expense of pro sponsorship to sell custom high end...

Long list of guys getting 5-6-7-8K for frame and fork without the burden.

Serotta's been involved with pro teams... The last pro team deal I remember is Sierra Nevada which preceded the last couple of misfires in fact.

In fact you could make the argument that pro team expenses were more of a problem than a solution for lots of folks...


I know of a company that will not sponsor a team again "likely ever, when we could spend half the money for greater exposure through TV, Magazines and Web sights and at less a risk of negative association in the recent cycling climate"...

[54ny77]

I wonder if De Rosa got good value sponsoring Rock Racing.

[LegendRider]

Originally Posted by fa63

Well, therein lies the problem. $6K frames usually have an aura of exclusivity/superiority associated with them, mostly through pros riding said frames (think Cervelo RCa, Pinarello Dogma, etc.) or effective marketing. With Serotta, you essentially have one man saying "this is a great frame; take my word for it" because there aren't really any pros/etc. out there riding and winning on them. Like they say, win on Sunday and sell on Monday. It seemed before the shutdown announcement that they were trying to get back into putting racers on their frames; it is too sad we didn't get to see if that was going to work for them.

I understand your point, but Parlee, for example, doesn't sponsor any road racing teams and they appear to have no problem selling extraordinarily high-end frames.

[CunegoFan]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

This. Sold them for a while, when they were part of PSI. Glad they have changed owners, the old 'crew' couldn't have been much worse.

So if the new crew replaced the old crew then doesn't that make Blue nothing more than a name? And what value is there in a name that if I google for a search term containing "blue" and "bike", I get results for bikes that are blue? Well, that and the bad reputation of the old crew.

I don't get the assurance that a company's products are designed by "white guys" but only built by Chinese. I can see the advantage in the case of large companies that can spend a lot of money on a lot of prototypes and wind tunnel testing, but what am I getting from a small company with limited resources that cannot be given by a Taiwanese ODM? There is no super secret technology or production technique here. Everyone uses the same small number of production companies using the same materials. All the design is done with the same software. I don't see what product value Blue has over a cheap Chinese frame with a good paint job.

[1centaur]

Originally Posted by CunegoFan

Everyone uses the same small number of production companies using the same materials. All the design is done with the same software. I don't see what product value Blue has over a cheap Chinese frame with a good paint job.

And yet steel bike makers manage to brand their talent with arguably less diversity of materials/technique.

I think the missing element is taste. CF bike makers specify their tubes based on how they want their bikes to feel and perform. A Crumpton does not ride like a Parlee, even if they get tubes from the same maker. Each designer has a feel for how he wants his bike to ride and gets there with some combo of layup specifications and joining technique.

You are right that Blue faces a real branding problem. Bike magazines are filled with stories of companies that specify their layups, maybe using computer programs, and then produce the results in Asia because their manufacturing quality is high. How to differentiate those bikes from each other, let alone from open mold frames? And starting with a generic name like Blue, you have a handicap. The road back starts by telling a story of the goal, the protos, the rides, until they got it just right 8 months later. Then get your bikes reviewed in all the mags and reinforce the backstory ad nauseum. Make your paint jobs good. Price it below perceived value. Hope it all gels. Right now, those makers think telling people they designed it outside of Asia is enough. They're wrong. Buyers have to buy into the ethos of the people involved.

[54ny77]

au contraire!

they sponsored fly v australia and had some terrific results and cool bikes (the z4's).

is one of the reasons i ended up getting one as well (at the time). good enough for them....good enough for a hack like myself.

http://reviews.roadbikereview.com/eq...iving-the-edge

Originally Posted by LegendRider

I understand your point, but Parlee, for example, doesn't sponsor any road racing teams and they appear to have no problem selling extraordinarily high-end frames.

[#campyuserftw]

What's most sad is to see another iconic (hate that word) company, based in America, made in America, lose, and potentially close their doors. It's free markets here, the workers will (we hope) find work elsewhere, and other, stronger, emerging brands, will benefit. There's no free lunch, yet.

"Grown Local" and "Made in America" (not merely engineered in America) should matter. Wish them the best.

Question: If within the past decade, they had produced a Retro Lugged Serotta, would you have purchased one?

[pro12tc]

Originally Posted by #campyuserftw

Question: If within the past decade, they had produced a Retro Lugged Serotta, would you have purchased one?

Yes! That's actually the kind of bike I most want from Serotta.

[#campyuserftw]

Originally Posted by pro12tc

Yes! That's actually the kind of bike I most want from Serotta.

+1 I think there's a lot of us out there.

When a company loses its heritage, forgets its history, the future, which is always a risk, either succeeds greatly, or dies painfully for all to see.

PENN Made in USA will always make this, their bread/butter, lugged steel:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Fishi...3Bcat103979880

And they did grow against Shimano, to make some chi chi carbon stuff too:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Penn-...FYuk4Aod-QIANw

Ford will always make an F-150.
Remington will always make an 1100, or 870.
Campy STILL makes alloy.