I prefer cantilever brakes for gravel (and CX) bikes

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by Erik_A

I agree that for mountain biking, discs are best; I was just talking cyclocross and gravel/ endurance.

In the spirit of discussion and absent the want or need to win my point there is still no way I would choose cantis over discs for cx gravel endurance

Discs allow
- greater ability to scrub speed instantly (traction allowing) to change lines. The inverse is now you can go faster without worrying about being able to stop. speed is an asset to ride some sections.
- less hand fatigue
- one finger braking

I also lament the loss of simplicity but the trade off is with it to me

[Erik_A]

I would argue that good cantis allow for the same stopping power - when I use them for cyclocross or gravel. Disc brakes are needed for rock gardens, and downhill while mountain biking, no arguing that.

For gravel events like the Land Run 100, when it gets wet the last thing people struggle with is braking power: See the Triple XXX Rd. comments on their Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/landrun100/...type=3&theater

Originally Posted by pdmtong

In the spirit of discussion and absent the want or need to win my point there is still no way I would choose cantis over discs for cx gravel endurance

Discs allow
- greater ability to scrub speed instantly (traction allowing) to change lines. The inverse is now you can go faster without worrying about being able to stop. speed is an asset to ride some sections.
- less hand fatigue
- one finger braking

I also lament the loss of simplicity but the trade off is with it to me

[mjf]

Originally Posted by Erik_A

I am not a fan of disc brakes for gravel/ endurance bikes, and am therefore frustrated that all of the sweet new steel gravel frames (that fit wider tires) are disc only! I guess I am a retro-grouch because I prefer my CX bike with TRP RevoX cantilever brakes. I am a big guy 6'-4" and over 220 lbs, and never had trouble stopping myself with cantilever brakes while riding cyclocross or gravel. Disc brakes are great for mountain bikes, but are such a hassle to set up properly and are way heavier than canti's.

For a short time, I had a Soma Wolverine with a nice steel front fork; the only problem was whenever I turned the brake rotor would rub against the caliper. I guess the fork was too flexible for my weight. So I just put 40c tires on my 2012 Van Dessel Gin & Trombones cyclocross bike, and call that my gravel bike. The Van Dessel has both canti studs as well as a disc mount on the frame. For awhile I thought about "upgrading" to discs, but I don't think I ever will. If its not broke, don't fix it, right?

I just wish that there was a Ritchey Swiss Cross (cantilever) equivalent steel frame that can fit 700x45c tires.

The one thing that I can agree with you on is the Soma Wolverine, if there's one thing I dislike about the bike, it's the fork. I'm about ~180lbs and it took me awhile to get the discs dialed in on the fork. Rear end was no issue.

I'm running 40c's on mine now with spyres, 160mm rotors; I had to add a 2mm spacer under the fork post mount adapter to make sure that I wouldn't get rubbing on either the caliper or rotor, since I was experiencing a combination of the two. After that was taken care of, I haven't had a single issue.

I haven't had the same problem on my Natureboy 853, even though components are identical. The whiskey fork and tapered headtube definitely make a huge difference with the increase in stiffness. I wish the wolverine was a tapered front end as well.

I have much more confidence in disc brakes, and being able to rely on them regardless of the weather or terrain. Rim brakes have never really inspired that confidence for me.

That being said, if I had to buy a new bike, it would be disc.

[donevwil]

Originally Posted by pdmtong

we had those on our fisher gemini tandem. decent brakeset prior to the coming advances in v-brakes but I still do not get why anyone would still prefer canti to modern disc. clearly our riding styles and trails are different

I expressed no preference of cantis (or any rim brake) to discs, but that's probably not what you were implying. In Petaluma we just don't see the conditions that would make road discs shine, so why dump a perfectly good bike just to "modernize". Not everyone is made of money.

The only disc braked bike I've ridden is the commuter I built for my wife and that was only around the block. I would NEVER sub the bottom feeder BB7s on that bike for any rim brake. After only five years her wheels and brakes have lasted far longer than any from her previous rim braked commuter from the prior nine.

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by Erik_A

For gravel events like the Land Run 100, when it gets wet the last thing people struggle with is braking power: See the Triple XXX Rd. comments on their Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/landrun100/...type=3&theater

yikes! for that, cantis for sure...less weight, massive mud shedding, braking the least of your worries.

Originally Posted by donevwil

I expressed no preference of cantis (or any rim brake) to discs, but that's probably not what you were implying. In Petaluma we just don't see the conditions that would make road discs shine, so why dump a perfectly good bike just to "modernize". Not everyone is made of money.

The only disc braked bike I've ridden is the commuter I built for my wife and that was only around the block. I would NEVER sub the bottom feeder BB7s on that bike for any rim brake. After only four years her wheels and brakes have lasted far longer than any from her previous rim braked commuter from the prior 15.

1) me included. and, agreed.
2) great description. I tried a 203mm BB7 on our third mtb tandem - bad move. slightly better than v-brake but soooo spongey. the point? the use case and budget drive the decision. lucky us to have choices. lmk what you think of pedersen SE technology as you delorean from 2017 back to 1991!

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Erik_A

No trolling, just frustrated that all of the new steel gravel frames are disc only.

Not 'all'..

http://gunnarbikes.com/site/bikes/crosshairs

[donevwil]

Originally Posted by pdmtong

lmk what you think of pedersen SE technology as you delorean from 2017 back to 1991!

Exactly what brake for a canti posted monster cross bike with clearance for 44s and fenders would you consider 2017 technology ?

[R3awak3n]

Disc brakes are a pain the ass but I would not say cantis are great. I am found of mini vs though, even though they lack clearance.

Disc brakes are cool that they let you use different size wheels.

[chiasticon]

Originally Posted by pdmtong

Discs allow
- greater ability to scrub speed instantly (traction allowing) to change lines. The inverse is now you can go faster without worrying about being able to stop. speed is an asset to ride some sections.
- less hand fatigue
- one finger braking

my inability to go faster in a cross race has never been caused by my fear that I won't be able to stop.

never been concerned about one finger braking or hand fatigue. maybe you need one of these:



much cheaper than buying a new bike

[TunaAndBikes]

Originally Posted by chiasticon

my inability to go faster in a cross race has never been caused by my fear that I won't be able to stop.

never been concerned about one finger braking or hand fatigue. maybe you need one of these:



much cheaper than buying a new bike

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

[Bentley]

I appreciate the position of the original poster. I am looking for a "gravel"bike, in reality a road bike that would take 32'a would work for me, but pretty much all that is available is disc set ups. I have to believe that the whole move to disc brakes is about selling more groups and wheels, its proliferating everywhere.

If I were a professional riding down the mountains of Italy, Spain, France at high speed I would likely see a benefit of disc brakes, for me a rim brake gets the job done and it uncomplicated my life.

Just my opinion

😀😀

[Gummee]

Originally Posted by VoyTirando

I was frankly psyched to see the "i prefer cantilevers" post. I rode mountain bikes for several years up in Winter Park, CO, where a ride involved a 1-2 hour climb and then a screaming descent back to the valley floor. I did this for years on cantis and V-brakes, in all conditions, and I was fine. Riding gravel now (and road), I'm pleased as punch with 1) TRP Euro-X cantis on the Bridgestone, and 2) centerpulls on the Bilenky. I've ridden the crap out of the TRPs, including D2R2 and lots of stuff up in Putnam County, NY, and I've never wanted discs.

My brother, a pretty serious rider out in Seattle, just locked up both discs on his CAAD12 and slid through an intersection in the rain, no modulation in those gorramn things to speak of, and is thinking of going back to a canti-based system himself (after 9 years of MTB in Park City, UT, he knows a thing or 2 about mountain biking).

I'm sure discs are nice. But there's no way they're "necessary." And their ability to modulate speed is arguably equaled by rider on cantis who knows what (s)he is doing.

That is all.

If you like the Euro-X brakes, you'll love the Revo-X brakes

AMHIK

M

[Gummee]

Originally Posted by pdmtong

2) great description. I tried a 203mm BB7 on our third mtb tandem - bad move. slightly better than v-brake but soooo spongey.!

That's somewhat fixable with zero compression housing. There will always be *some* compression, but it can be better with better housing

M

[Fatty]

Originally Posted by Erik_A

I am not a fan of disc brakes for gravel/ endurance bikes, and am therefore frustrated that all of the sweet new steel gravel frames (that fit wider tires) are disc only! I guess I am a retro-grouch because I prefer my CX bike with TRP RevoX cantilever brakes. I am a big guy 6'-4" and over 220 lbs, and never had trouble stopping myself with cantilever brakes while riding cyclocross or gravel. Disc brakes are great for mountain bikes, but are such a hassle to set up properly and are way heavier than canti's.

For a short time, I had a Soma Wolverine with a nice steel front fork; the only problem was whenever I turned the brake rotor would rub against the caliper. I guess the fork was too flexible for my weight. So I just put 40c tires on my 2012 Van Dessel Gin & Trombones cyclocross bike, and call that my gravel bike. The Van Dessel has both canti studs as well as a disc mount on the frame. For awhile I thought about "upgrading" to discs, but I don't think I ever will. If its not broke, don't fix it, right?

I just wish that there was a Ritchey Swiss Cross (cantilever) equivalent steel frame that can fit 700x45c tires.

Sorry your first experience with discs was a poor one. My first time around with discs was frustrating and I went back to V-brakes. Sometimes a brand makes all the difference. There are some crummy disc brakes out there.

[Clean39T]

I count myself lucky for having grown up in MTB when the bikes were light, rigid, thumbed, and canted.

A properly set up canti brake is a thing of beauty, but took too long for the big-brand shops...so out went the hangers in favor of those stupid fixed-length things which people still fckd up and so another "innovation" was needed...another answer to a problem that didn't exist.

For my money, 1992-93 was the high water mark for mountain bikes; it's been a downward slide ever since. I'll be building a period-correct Fat Chance shortly to test that theory

The unfortunate thing is now the trails are being built to match the bikes, so finding fireroads and flowy-singletrack gets harder all the time. Extreme!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk