Question about possible LBS caused crack in BB

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by ultraman6970

BB's and headsets are a must home work for a bike owner

Except for the multitude of tools - presses, adapters, etc - required these days for BB's makes it not viable for most. I'm very fortunate to have a shop a mile from the house and they handle wheels & BB stuff for me.

[benb]

Originally Posted by dgauthier

Not to hijack the thread, (and with all due respect,) but I thought BB's and headsets were the most difficult and advanced parts of bike maintennance, and were best performed by a shop. Who owns a headset press, or a bottom bracket facing tool?

Most of us don't own presses but he has a great point. The need to buy a press seemed to be a line in the sand.. a lot of us stopped doing the BB ourselves cause we had to buy a press.

Headsets are a little different since they fail pretty rarely. I've never messed with a headset.

I never had a shop mess up a frame like this but I have had an incident one of the few times I let a shop install a BB/Crank for me, so I'm always happy to do it myself.

If you have the right press you may be covered for replacing MTB shocks too.. nice to have as the correct spacers/bushings/whatever have to be pressed in before you can install the shock into the frame.

[batman1425]

Headsets and BB's are among the more finicky parts of bike maintenance, but it isn't rocket science. I've got a bottom bracket bearing press for these applications (WheelsMf unit which is great and cost $35) which also works fine with appropriate drifts for headsets. With some simple prep and attention to detail, they are not difficult to use correctly.

Also - not necessarily fair to assume that a given tech at a given shop working on your bike will know more, or be more careful than you would be. Not all bike shops and their mechanics are equal in skill and care. Nor does pricepoint of the shop necessarily mean you'll get good service. Many people assume the fancy boutique shops "know" how to handle a fancy bike. Sometimes this is true, however, IME I've gotten the best service from the guys grinding it out as entry to mid level focused shops who are really making ends meet through their rock start service that they can crank out at volume. You may argue they don't see much high end stuff so they are less experienced, but word spreads fast in the local communities on where to get good service. The only bike-shop induced damage incident I've had was from one of the boutique places, but YVMV.

As OldPotatoe said - any shop can and should make it right when problems like this come up. Its a hard lesson to the owner that there are technical/education/experience deficiencies in the chain somewhere that they need to address to avoid another $$$-$$$$ mistake. I'd present your concerns and documentation in a open and non-threatening way and try to come to a mutually agreeable solution. There is a local carbon repair guy to me (Drew at Cyclocarbon) that does outstanding work at very reasonable prices that include custom color matching to the repair that I would recommend if you have to go that route.

[JAGI410]

Any chance that the "crack" is just a contaminant under the paint job you did?

[-dustin]

a few opinions...

1) that adapter should never have been installed. it should've never made it past the service counter, if that far.

2) loctite should not have been used in that frame.

3) i've had the pleasure of removing those Parlee cups a couple times. absolute pain in the ass for some reason. the ones that were in my bike were destroyed in the process. i used proper tools.

4) you need to take the frame back and explain the situation.

[Polyglot]

A few things to note, the star-shaped crack means that there was a localized impact that was caused by something other than riding: a sudden impact, possibly internal but more likely external.

Secondly, you say that the frame has been repainted. How was the old paint removed and what type of paint was used. When was the repaint done? This can be important, as paint when first applied, and not stressed, can hide preexisting damage like what you now see. The damage can rightly only appear after the frame is stressed. It does not occur frequently, so while it is likely that the shop caused the damage, I would still not feel comfortable to squarely place blame on the shop as there is a limited chance that it could have already been built in, especially if you removed some of the resin together with the old paint (a virtual certainty). I know that Colnago is one manufacturer who voids all warranties on carbon frames when you repaint the frame and I also know of a few others who likewise do the same.

[Wayne77]

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. Very helpful.

To answer a few questions posted here (all great questions):

- The 2 year old frame had a stock matte clear coat over bare carbon previously. Knowing I did not want to sand into bare CF, I scuffed up the clear coat with 600 grit prior to applying the first base coat. I didn't sand into the bare CF anywhere on the frame prior to repainting.

- The frame was refinished 2 weeks ago. 1 solid black base coat, an intercoat clear, then a metallic silver pearl, another intermediate clear, 4 areas masked off with darker shades of silver pearl, then a final High Solids clear using auto-paint (which is ridiculously expensive )

- I am 99.9% certain there wasn't a crack there before I refinished the frame. Same certainty that crack wasn't there when I dropped it off. I know every last inch of that frame since I finished it and meticulously wet sanded and polished the clear coat prior to starting to build it up.

- I doubt there was any kind of contaminant under the paint there. I'd think that would have manifested itself right away, and especially during the final polishing process. Also, not sure such a thing would show up as a bulging star-shaped crack like that.

[Wayne77]

Originally Posted by -dustin

a few opinions...

1) that adapter should never have been installed. it should've never made it past the service counter, if that far.

thanks. Do you mean the Parlee cups or the FSA 386 BB with FSA 24mm adapters that were installed after?

On a side note, is that setup asking for trouble (FSA BB386 BB, 24mm press fit adapter cups, 24mm DA 9000 crank) as is? Maybe I should go through the hassle of selling the DA9000 crank and find a crank with a 30mm spindle. I just love the looks of the DA crank for this particular build...

[ultraman6970]

For the two pointing at the tools press for the BB and headsets, you can make those tools from hardware parts, not fancy but it works... lots of threads about DIY tools here and there.

About chasing and facing tools, well is not that you need to face a bb every time you change the BB... and once is done the metal wont deform enough to get faced 3 or 4 times in a year... i have a frame made when I was 16 y/o and that one has been faced 3 times in 30 years... the BB has been chased twice in 30 years. so is not that you need those tools all the time. Even here nobody has italian BB tools so you have to get creative, I made my own chaser using a dura ace BB cups, works like a charm and I know other forumites have done it too, the cup you want to install gets in too tight, put the home made chaser in and good to go.

As batman says... a press is not a hard tool to make or to buy specially when the average joe doesnt need shop quality grade and honestly now you can find a lot of tools for fair price at ebay and if you are lucky you can score stuff at CL or in a swap meet aswell. Even... if you have a good friend, share the price for a tool and then share it with the guy... thing i have done before aswell.

[-dustin]

Originally Posted by Wayne77

thanks. Do you mean the Parlee cups or the FSA 386 BB with FSA 24mm adapters that were installed after?

On a side note, is that setup asking for trouble (FSA BB386 BB, 24mm press fit adapter cups, 24mm DA 9000 crank) as is? Maybe I should go through the hassle of selling the DA9000 crank and find a crank with a 30mm spindle. I just love the looks of the DA crank for this particular build...

Parlee cups. Hate 'em.

I use that FSA setup in my wife's bike. No drama so far. Next time around, I'll probably pony up for Kogel.

[commonguy001]

Originally Posted by Wayne77

thanks. Do you mean the Parlee cups or the FSA 386 BB with FSA 24mm adapters that were installed after?

On a side note, is that setup asking for trouble (FSA BB386 BB, 24mm press fit adapter cups, 24mm DA 9000 crank) as is? Maybe I should go through the hassle of selling the DA9000 crank and find a crank with a 30mm spindle. I just love the looks of the DA crank for this particular build...

You should be completely fine with the FSA BB and 24mm press fit cups.

Side note - I have the same frameset/bike but Fluo Yellow and Super Record with zipps (fsa bb386 cranks). It's pretty damn amazing

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by ultraman6970

As batman says... a press is not a hard tool to make or to buy specially when the average joe doesnt need shop quality grade

But, as the OP shows, even those basic tools can go wrong when used improperly by someone who handles them every day - and this becomes even easier for improper tools with people that dont use them all the time.

[Jeff N.]

Sorry this happened...yet another argument against pressed-in BB cups and, more importantly, letting others do your wrenching. Hope you can get things straightened out without major confrontation issues.

[Jeff N.]

Originally Posted by -dustin

Parlee cups. Hate 'em.

I use that FSA setup in my wife's bike. No drama so far. Next time around, I'll probably pony up for Kogel.

Their carbon FD adapter is a POS too.

[cmbicycles]

Originally Posted by .RJ

But, as the OP shows, even those basic tools can go wrong when used improperly by someone who handles them every day - and this becomes even easier for improper tools with people that dont use them all the time.

Generaly speaking, someone working on their own bike would take more care than the average shop mechanic using the same tools. I have my own tools for tapping/facing/pressing/pulling/etc and know how to use them. Sometimes I do jobs for local shops that know I have the tools. If you own your own tools, learn how to use them, and care for them then mistakes should be far fewer than trusting random mechanics in a typical high volume repair shop, plus at home you can take your time.