OT: solar panels

[NHAero]

Originally Posted by saab2000

Do any of you with solar have battery storage? There are many but the Tesla Powerwall is well known.

Eventually the day may come that an EV has 2-way power with the vehicle being that storage solution, controllable of course to not drain the car beyond a point.

Some of you may be aware of a well known YouTuber, Marques Brownlee. He purchased the Tesla roof and battery and has a video on his experience, which is mostly positive but not all. It’s a very expensive system but he reports that it works well generally, obviously especially in summer and not so much in the winter. Interesting video if anyone looks for it. His house is in New Jersey for reference regarding latitude and sun exposure.

Our Chevy Bolt EV has the battery storage of five Tesla Powerwalls. Vehicle-to-building and grid is where it has to go.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by roydyates

I don’t have a battery and I’ve wondered if a battery would reduce the flows in and out of the grid.

I’m sure it would. I am curious about these conversations and think wide-scale adoption would be great but it doesn’t work for everyone. I live in a townhouse and generally we have a fair amount of southern exposure. If the HOA wanted to explore this next time the roof needs replacement I would be an interested resident. But probably not everyone would be and for good reasons likely.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by rice rocket

Should be re-iterated that net metering can go away at any point, as it has out west and south, which might leave you upside down on the whole deal.

Not true because although there were changes to NEM, there is grandfathering to keep people in the old NEM plans.

[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by roydyates

This matters more than might be obvious, at least to me. I own a solar system and I learned something quite surprising from the SolarEdge app. If on a given day my system generates, say, 35 kW-hr and my house consumes 35 kW-hr, the percentage of my consumed energy that comes FROM THE GRID on that day typically ranges from 50% to 80%. On a 60% day, what that means is that I am pumping 60% of the energy I generate into the grid and 60% of the energy I consume comes from the grid.

Exactly. This is why I'm starting to pay attention to elective usage, mentioned above. Below is a production/usage chart of my system from Tuesday. It clearly shows when I'm making versus using. For the day I was net positive almost 15kWh.

Yet, except for the period between 9 am and 3 pm, I was buying electrons at retail from the power company. During that period I was selling electrons wholesale to the power company.

It was a nice sunny spring day.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by saab2000

I’m sure it would. I am curious about these conversations and think wide-scale adoption would be great but it doesn’t work for everyone. I live in a townhouse and generally we have a fair amount of southern exposure. If the HOA wanted to explore this next time the roof needs replacement I would be an interested resident. But probably not everyone would be and for good reasons likely.

Curious, what is your average electricity bill?

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by NHAero

Our Chevy Bolt EV has the battery storage of five Tesla Powerwalls. Vehicle-to-building and grid is where it has to go.

This is great in theory but for all but emergency use impractical. You need the car battery charged to drive it and if you put it through many more charge cycles you reduce its life and car batteries are very expensive to replace making the whole exercise a money loser.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Curious, what is your average electricity bill?

My electric bill is actually lumped in with a general municipal bill which includes water, sewer, garbage and a few other things. Mine is higher becuase I charge my Model Y at home, averaging $45-$55 monthly for the car’s electric needs.

It is itemized but I rarely go through it with a fine comb. But I know what my car needs due to the app tracking it.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by saab2000

My electric bill is actually lumped in with a general municipal bill which includes water, sewer, garbage and a few other things. Mine is higher becuase I charge my Model Y at home, averaging $45-$55 monthly for the car’s electric needs.

It is itemized but I rarely go through it with a fine comb. But I know what my car needs due to the app tracking it.

That is quite cheap!

I just started watching that dude's youtube video review of his Tesla roof and battery, and he mentioned that by a huge margin, charging his car was the biggest load on his electrical system. So, knowing you are a single guy, I'm guessing your total electricity bill is probably well under $100/month if we say 50ish for your car charging.

If we guestimate you spend about $1000/year on electricity, give or take, to make the math simple, what payback period do you think would be acceptable if you need to lay out the funds to get solar and a battery system?

Also we must realize that no matter what the utility is going to charge some T&D fees whether you pull any watts from the grid or not.

Of course, power prices are always going to go up, so $1000 this year may be significantly more in 10 years.

Having a family of 5, my power costs are much higher than yours, and I dont even have an electric car, but I dont think my washer/dryer rests for any day of the week, multiple TVs run all hours of the day/night, etc - so my calculus would be quite different.

I think a lot of it comes down to the incentives one can get.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

That is quite cheap!

I just started watching that dude's youtube video review of his Tesla roof and battery, and he mentioned that by a huge margin, charging his car was the biggest load on his electrical system. So, knowing you are a single guy, I'm guessing your total electricity bill is probably well under $100/month if we say 50ish for your car charging.

If we guestimate you spend about $1000/year on electricity, give or take, to make the math simple, what payback period do you think would be acceptable if you need to lay out the funds to get solar and a battery system?

Also we must realize that no matter what the utility is going to charge some T&D fees whether you pull any watts from the grid or not.

Of course, power prices are always going to go up, so $1000 this year may be significantly more in 10 years.

Having a family of 5, my power costs are much higher than yours, and I dont even have an electric car, but I dont think my washer/dryer rests for any day of the week, multiple TVs run all hours of the day/night, etc - so my calculus would be quite different.

I think a lot of it comes down to the incentives one can get.

I can't do the solar roof by myself as I live in an HOA. But yes, my energy needs are relatively low being single. Just like EVs aren't yet for everyone and maybe never will be, the same is true for solar.

[NHAero]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

That is quite cheap!

I just started watching that dude's youtube video review of his Tesla roof and battery, and he mentioned that by a huge margin, charging his car was the biggest load on his electrical system. So, knowing you are a single guy, I'm guessing your total electricity bill is probably well under $100/month if we say 50ish for your car charging.

If we guestimate you spend about $1000/year on electricity, give or take, to make the math simple, what payback period do you think would be acceptable if you need to lay out the funds to get solar and a battery system?

Also we must realize that no matter what the utility is going to charge some T&D fees whether you pull any watts from the grid or not.

Of course, power prices are always going to go up, so $1000 this year may be significantly more in 10 years.

Having a family of 5, my power costs are much higher than yours, and I dont even have an electric car, but I dont think my washer/dryer rests for any day of the week, multiple TVs run all hours of the day/night, etc - so my calculus would be quite different.

I think a lot of it comes down to the incentives one can get.

I was just looking at a client's electrical usage over the past four years. She came to me with a high bill complaint, even though they have PV. Over the past three years, what she pays per kWh here on Martha's Vineyard has gone up 36.4% - 11% annually. One needs to pick some value for electric rate inflation when calculating solar ROI, it really matters. We had a peak rate of $0.41/kWh last summer.

We are atypical users of energy, since I am an energy nerd. Two people and a dog in a bit over 1,300 sf with an EV. Our annual breakdown by end use is almost in thirds, apportioned to EV (33%), HVAC/HW (35%), and plug loads/lighting/appliances (32%). In more typical small households I have monitored, with superinsulated construction and all-electric energy, the discretionary loads are a larger %.

Costs of energy vary hugely across the US. My brother in suburban Seattle pays more than we do for gasoline, but electricity is a fraction of what we pay. An EV for them was a no-brainer. Here it is a wash cost-wise with gasoline since our electric rates have gone up so much. Much lower emissions though.

[rice rocket]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Not true because although there were changes to NEM, there is grandfathering to keep people in the old NEM plans.

This isn't universal and is up to your state legislature.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by rice rocket

This isn't universal and is up to your state legislature.

Give an example? I'm unaware of any. Nevada eliminated NEM and there was so much blowback, they reinstituted it. California still has a less lucrative NEM which makes solar almost not worth it and the market is cratering, but that's for new installs and existing solar users are still covered under the old NEM plans.

[deluz]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Give an example? I'm unaware of any. Nevada eliminated NEM and there was so much blowback, they reinstituted it. California still has a less lucrative NEM which makes solar almost not worth it and the market is cratering, but that's for new installs and existing solar users are still covered under the old NEM plans.

Under the new flat rate proposal NEM would be essentially negated.
It would add $128 per month to my bill. The CPUC can the rules anyway they want.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by deluz

Under the new flat rate proposal NEM would be essentially negated.
It would add $128 per month to my bill. The CPUC can the rules anyway they want.

We'll see what happens with that and what the final thing will be. I've read there is bipartisan push back in the Assembly. Expect law suits as well.

My solar consultant provided me with this a few weeks ago:


PG&E PROPOSES UTILITY INCOME TAX BILL


A last-minute provision sneaked into Assembly Bill 205 by Gavin Newsom grants the CPUC permission to authorize PG&E to levy its customers with an ‘income-based’ fixed electricity charge, regardless of energy consumption levels. Existing solar homes would also be subjected to this “Utility Income Tax” which is aimed to have high-income earners shoulder more of PG&E’s infrastructure costs and will surely be sold to the public that it should reduce energy costs for low-income households. The CPUC is expected to rule on what's been called a ‘graduated fixed income charge' in July 2024, which undoubtedly will spike political debate as we head into an election year. If approved, the Utility Income Tax would be initiated by 2026. Laughably, most CA legislators voted YES on Assembly Bill 205, admittedly without reading all of it, only now coming out of the woodwork in opposition.


Round One of the proposed monthly Income Tax Bill places PG&E customers into three annual income buckets, each to be levied with a monthly fixed income charge:
 

$25,000 to $75,000
$30/mo

$75,000 to $150,000
$51/mo

Over $150,000
$92/mo

Stay tuned as Round 2 is closing and a final verdict is expected soon. I predict the CPUC bends a little and shoots for something near a $50/mo income charge for all customers with a choice to opt-in to a lower tier for those that qualify. That is of course if you’re willing to furnish PG&E with your tax return.

[cnighbor1]

They reduced the amount you get for using solar panels. The only way to make them so they save you money is too have solar batteries installed with in installation of add one with the solar panels you have now
Solar business in CA is off 75%
Charles