OT - Same Attorney General Baltimore Cops/Tom & Bishop

[velomonkey]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

From NYTimes, ""Ms. Mosby did not allege that the van driver, Officer Caesar R. Goodson, Jr., intentionally gave Mr. Gray a �rough ride,� to slam him against the metal walls of the van. But Officer Goodson was charged with second-degree murder, manslaughter, assault and misconduct in office."

I'm not taking any sides but this is turning into a media circus, IMHO.

Replace "rough ride" with "beat the ����� out of"

He didn't allege that he beat the ����� out of the guy, but he still charged him with aggravated assult.

'Rough ride' is slang - it's not a formal charge and she was speaking formally. Also, note - the guy who was in the Paddy wagon and claimed Freddie hurt himself (which isn't black and white) he said when they opened the door the cops said "well, we gave him a ride for his money."

[harlond]

Originally Posted by soulspinner

Skimmed the thread but didnt the coroner call it homicide? Now its just who dunnit.........

The coroner does not decide whether a crime was committed. Homicide means the manner of death was unnatural, not that someone committed a crime.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by harlond

The coroner does not decide whether a crime was committed. Homicide means the manner of death was unnatural, not that someone committed a crime.

Really? They distinguish between homicide and suicide and traffic accidents, don't they. I'm pretty sure homicide means at the hands of another party. How that shakes out legally is what the justice system determines, but when the coroner rules a death a homicide, it means someone else committed an act that caused the death.

-Ray

[harlond]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

And then there is this.

http://www.youngcons.com/baltimore-p...to-gray-family

If these "connections" are all it takes to disqualify a prosecutor, there would be an independent prosecutor whenever someone dies in police custody (and in many, many other circumstances as well). People often have called for that, though usually it's the family of the deceased after the prosecutor declines to charge a police officer.

[93legendti]

'Dershowitz lamented that �this is a very sad day for justice� and told Steve Malzberg that Mosby acted out of a �desire to prevent riots.� It will be �virtually impossible,� he predicted, for the six officers involved to get a fair trial.

And as for murder charges, Dershowitz said there�s �no plausible, hypothetical, conceivable case for murder� and �this is a show trial.� He predicted that Mosby might get removed as prosecutor and Baltimore citizens may get upset if and/or when they �move to a place with a different demographic.�

He concluded that it�s �unlikely they�ll get any convictions in this case� and if they do they�ll likely �be reversed on appeal.�'

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/alan-ders...y-for-justice/

[velomonkey]

Originally Posted by harlond

The coroner does not decide whether a crime was committed. Homicide means the manner of death was unnatural, not that someone committed a crime.

False - the four manners of death that are picked by an ME Homicide is "The taking of one human life by another human being" - not unnatural.

Once he ruled it a homicide the DA better get some charges out the door.

[velomonkey]

Originally Posted by 93legendti

'Dershowitz lamented , , , ,

If anyone knows a show trial - it's that chucklehead.

[Grant McLean]

Originally Posted by 93legendti

And as for murder charges, Dershowitz said there�s �no plausible, hypothetical, conceivable case for murder�

It depends on which murder charge. In this case, the specific charge of
"second-degree �depraved heart� murder" is one in which "total indifference"
was filed against Caesar Goodman, the driver. That doesn't include what
many people would assume is "intent to kill" that is normally associated with
"murder".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depraved-heart_murder

That said, over-charging seems to be the tactic of the current day.
It's not like people ever get outraged when known criminals are overcharged
on a regular basis. Charge them, and let the court sort it out seems to be
the part of the process with the most leverage.

-g

[rugbysecondrow]

Originally Posted by Ray

I don't think that it was any sort of direct "he's black, let's nab him" kind of thing at all. The identity of three of the six cops should make that plain. But race is just PART of the whole social/economic profile that I'm sure cops start to see when they get to know a city and it's neighborhoods. This is a really poor and very high crime part of Baltimore, and it's a largely African-American area also.



I'm sure cops in that neighborhood have their guards up for a lot of reasons and race isn't one of them in any sort of intentional way. But it's part of the shorthand, part of what they're accustomed to seeing there, and part of a subconscious checklist they're constantly running through their heads, out of self-preservation if nothing else. So I don't think we can fully discount it either. My guess if this kid had been white in the same location in the same situation, he'd have been a lot less likely to have been chased down, tackled, arrested, and tossed in a paddy wagon with nothing more than a legal knife on him.



It's a tough neighborhood that cops have to be wary of and race is only a part of it. But I'm pretty sure it is PART of it, even if sub-consciously... Yes, ALL lives matter, but white lives are a lot less likely to come to this sort of end in this country and that's not just coincidence. Which is why this kind of story is getting so much play now. There are countervailing factors in lots of the individual cases, but the sheer number of individual cases that are popping up now, largely because of social media and instant video everywhere, makes the larger racial issue pretty much unavoidable. This Baltimore case seems to be where everything since Trayvon Martin is hitting critical mass and coming to a head. Race is surely A factor here...



-Ray

Then the notion you are furthering is that there is no conclusion one can draw about another person that does not involve a conscience or subconscience factoring of the individuals race. To what degree this factors into action matters a great deal. If this was. 25 year old known drug dealer, frequent arrests and interactions with police, who ran when he saw police,...by the way, he is white, I suspect the police would have acted the exact same way.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Grant McLean

^
i wouldn't even had responded but for this.
First you said "cleared", than you said the DA "already mentioned",
then quoted a story that said she didn't mention it.

Need more coffee before saturday morning typing perhaps?

-g

Ok you win....

[OtayBW]

Originally Posted by velomonkey

If anyone knows a show trial - it's that chucklehead.

FTW!

[93legendti]

Originally Posted by velomonkey

If anyone knows a show trial - it's that chucklehead.

Oh.

Say, what are your legal qualifications?

"He is the Felix Frankfurter Professor of Law at Harvard Law School. Dershowitz, a graduate of Brooklyn College and Yale Law School, joined the Harvard Law School faculty at age 25 after clerking for Judge David Bazelon and Justice Arthur Goldberg...

He has also published more than 1000 articles in magazines, newspapers, journals and blogs such as The New York Times Magazine, The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, The Harvard Law Review, the Yale Law Journal, Huffington Post, Newsmax, Jerusalem Post and Ha’aretz. Professor Dershowitz is the author of 30 fiction and non-fiction works with a worldwide audience, including The New York Times #1 bestseller Chutzpah and five other national bestsellers. His autobiography, Taking the Stand: My Life in the Law, was published in October 2013 by Crown, a division of Random House. Earlier titles include “an exceptional, action packed book,” The Trials of Zion, a novel which has been called “a thought-provoking page turner;” Rights From Wrong; The Case For Israel; The Case For Peace; Blasphemy; Preemption; Finding Jefferson; and Shouting Fire.

In addition to his numerous law review articles and books about criminal and constitutional law, he has written, taught and lectured about history, philosophy, psychology, literature, mathematics, theology, music, sports – and even delicatessens.

His writing has been praised by Truman Capote, Saul Bellow, William Styron, David Mamet, Aharon Appelfeld, A.B. Yehoshua, Elie Wiesel, Richard North Patterson, and Henry Louis Gate, Jr. More than a million of his books—translated in many languages—have been sold worldwide."

http://hls.harvard.edu/faculty/direc...210/Dershowitz

[93legendti]

Originally Posted by Grant McLean

It depends on which murder charge. In this case, the specific charge of
"second-degree “depraved heart” murder" is one in which "total indifference"
was filed against Caesar Goodman, the driver. That doesn't include what
many people would assume is "intent to kill" that is normally associated with
"murder".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depraved-heart_murder

That said, over-charging seems to be the tactic of the current day.
It's not like people ever get outraged when known criminals are overcharged
on a regular basis. Charge them, and let the court sort it out seems to be
the part of the process with the most leverage.

-g

Oh.

I never learned about murder by lack of seatbelt when I took Criminal Law at Michigan's Law School. Fascinating.

[ojingoh]

And none of that mattered, they asked him because he's on TV a lot. AFAIK he's not been asked to see the evidence, use that impressive CV to devise a legal strategy, discuss the cases with any other city, county or state parties involved to get a more nuanced view. He's a guy on TV.

Originally Posted by 93legendti

Oh.

Say, what are your legal qualifications?

"He is the Felix Frankfurter Professor of Law at Harvard Law School. Dershowitz, a graduate of Brooklyn College and Yale Law School, joined the Harvard Law School faculty at age 25 after clerking for Judge David Bazelon and Justice Arthur Goldberg...

He has also published more than 1000 articles in magazines, newspapers, journals and blogs such as The New York Times Magazine, The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, The Harvard Law Review, the Yale Law Journal, Huffington Post, Newsmax, Jerusalem Post and Ha�aretz. Professor Dershowitz is the author of 30 fiction and non-fiction works with a worldwide audience, including The New York Times #1 bestseller Chutzpah and five other national bestsellers. His autobiography, Taking the Stand: My Life in the Law, was published in October 2013 by Crown, a division of Random House. Earlier titles include �an exceptional, action packed book,� The Trials of Zion, a novel which has been called �a thought-provoking page turner;� Rights From Wrong; The Case For Israel; The Case For Peace; Blasphemy; Preemption; Finding Jefferson; and Shouting Fire.

In addition to his numerous law review articles and books about criminal and constitutional law, he has written, taught and lectured about history, philosophy, psychology, literature, mathematics, theology, music, sports � and even delicatessens.

His writing has been praised by Truman Capote, Saul Bellow, William Styron, David Mamet, Aharon Appelfeld, A.B. Yehoshua, Elie Wiesel, Richard North Patterson, and Henry Louis Gate, Jr. More than a million of his books�translated in many languages�have been sold worldwide."

http://hls.harvard.edu/faculty/direc...210/Dershowitz

[Grant McLean]

Originally Posted by 93legendti

Say, what are your legal qualifications?

"He is the Felix Frankfurter Professor of Law at Harvard Law School. Dershowitz, a graduate of Brooklyn College and Yale Law School, joined the Harvard Law School faculty at age 25 after clerking for Judge David Bazelon and Justice Arthur Goldberg...

He has also published more than 1000 articles in magazines, newspapers, journals and blogs such as The New York Times Magazine, The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, The Harvard Law Review, the Yale Law Journal, Huffington Post, Newsmax, Jerusalem Post and Ha’aretz. Professor Dershowitz is the author of 30 fiction and non-fiction works with a worldwide audience, including The New York Times #1 bestseller Chutzpah and five other national bestsellers. His autobiography, Taking the Stand: My Life in the Law, was published in October 2013 by Crown, a division of Random House. Earlier titles include “an exceptional, action packed book,” The Trials of Zion, a novel which has been called “a thought-provoking page turner;” Rights From Wrong; The Case For Israel; The Case For Peace; Blasphemy; Preemption; Finding Jefferson; and Shouting Fire.

In addition to his numerous law review articles and books about criminal and constitutional law, he has written, taught and lectured about history, philosophy, psychology, literature, mathematics, theology, music, sports – and even delicatessens.

His writing has been praised by Truman Capote, Saul Bellow, William Styron, David Mamet, Aharon Appelfeld, A.B. Yehoshua, Elie Wiesel, Richard North Patterson, and Henry Louis Gate, Jr. More than a million of his books—translated in many languages—have been sold worldwide."

http://hls.harvard.edu/faculty/direc...210/Dershowitz

Right... because every Supreme Court Justice agrees on everything too.
There is only 1 expert legal opinion? That's some nice strawman you built there.

-g