Another pro disc brake crash

[FlashUNC]

I rode a bike with disc brakes yesterday and I did not look like I spent an hour in a locked closet with Jack the Ripper afterward.

[benb]

Originally Posted by seanile

not really. chainring stops spinning when you stop pedaling. rotor keeps moving until the wheel stops. further, most crashes of consequence happen at high speeds, when the chain is in the big ring filling in the chainring's spikey death teeth. so you'd just hit the broad lumpy surface of a non-moving chain if you came in contact with that.

This is nuts.. I find it hard to believe anyone who has raced even semi-seriously would think this is anything but ridiculous.

Chainrings are freakin sharp, way sharper than discs. I've got several bad scars from race pileups where I somehow managed to get my leg in contact with someone's chain rings.

A chainring will slice you up real nice even if you hit it from the side. The pedals don't need to be turning at all.

Heck I have cut myself 2X on the chainrings when I was trying to get a pedal off. It's like the 1 thing in bike maintenance I won't do anymore without long sleeves and good work gloves.

Pedals and a bunch of other things will slice you up good in crashes too. Heck even downtime bosses for cables will cut you. Both things I've also been cut on.

The only time I had to go to the ER after a race incident was a tire slamming into my hand badly bruising my finger (smashed my finger between the tire and the brake lever). I had to go to get the finger drained due to blood pooling under the nail. Nothing sharp involved there!

I think there is something more odd going on here political. I don't really believe Pros are terribly smart/educated/scientific. They got where they are by having good lungs/hearts/legs and knowing how to be conformists and do everything the way the peloton myths dictate things should be done. They are making this a cause for the riders out of some desire to be heard since they have been getting tread on by everyone for decades now. Unlike chainrings and pedals disc brakes are not absolutely required but I really do believe they probably will prevent some accidents in the pro peloton too, and these guys injure themselves horrifically on a regular basis regardless of the type of brakes.

If the riders made any sense at all they would be ignoring disc brakes and demanding safer behavior out of cars & motos that are driving alongside the peloton.

[drewskey]

Originally Posted by benb

Chainrings are freakin sharp, way sharper than discs. I've got several bad scars from race pileups where I somehow managed to get my leg in contact with someone's chain rings.

A chainring will slice you up real nice even if you hit it from the side. The pedals don't need to be turning at all.

.

Here's my leg after being sliced open in a crit crash last year by a front big ring. Everyone was in big rings. And I have no idea who's chain grease this is or whose chainring I hit. WARNING BLOOD: http://imgur.com/GG3ox0L

[Macadamia]

Originally Posted by drewskey

Here's my leg after being sliced open in a crit crash last year by a front big ring. Everyone was in big rings. And I have no idea who's chain grease this is or whose chainring I hit. WARNING BLOOD: http://imgur.com/GG3ox0L

are you sure nobody was running discs? and maybe your leg slid across a glob of grease idling sitting by the side of the road

[drewskey]

Originally Posted by Macadamia

are you sure nobody was running discs? and maybe your leg slid across a glob of grease idling sitting by the side of the road

You know, now that you phrase it that way...

[tuscanyswe]

Why are ppl so fast to say disc won't cause injury and we allrdy have a worse disc in the chainrings? That it is blown way out of proportion?

To me its kinda obvious disc could potentially cause very serious injuries. Just go to your butchershop and see what their meat cutter looks like..
That does not mean your chainring can not cause serious injury as well, i dont even see what that has got to do with it. Crashing in these kind of speeds even if you dont come in contact with anything on the bike can cause serious injury or even death. Is that a free pass to put more solutions that are potentially dangerous on bikes?

Does that mean no one should ride disc? Of course not, for me its not even about that. I dont care in the slightest who rides what and where.

But to ridicule the potential damage that could be caused by discs seems silly to me and if i were riding in a peleton i would prefer ppl around me to be on caliper brakes for now.

[ergott]

Originally Posted by tuscanyswe

Just go to your butchershop and see what their meat cutter looks like..

Ugh.

Disc rotors are approximately 1.8-2.0mm in thickness (when new). With a properly rounded edge, they’d be no more dangerous than a common 14g round spoke.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by batman1425

Honestly, I think that is exactly what is happening. There is a sizable contingent of the peloton that is against disc brakes and creating (for lack of a better word) a high profile negative outcome is one way to get the powers that be to slow or reverse the transition and consider other paths that improve rider safety. It's a powerful tool for a contingent of people that don't feel like they are being listened to regarding rider safety. I completely get it, the riders want to be safe, and I'm not suggesting they are fabricating anything, but the potential for bias is high and riders seem to be quick on the trigger to blame discs.

This article today on Cycling News seems to consistent with the above comments:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/disc...n-says-hansen/

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by ergott

Ugh.

Disc rotors are approximately 1.8-2.0mm in thickness (when new). With a properly rounded edge, they’d be no more dangerous than a common 14g round spoke.

I'm not a fan of disc brakes on (most) road bikes, and would be happy if the pros decided not to use them. But my concerns regarding disc brakes aren't much about safety. Sure, disc brakes may introduce a few new dynamics that may occasionally cause some injury in a crash - but there are so many other ways that parts of a bike may injure people, that I doubt that it will result in any increase in the number or severity of injuries. There may even be some compensation effect, where disc brakes slightly decrease the chances of some injury modes, while slightly increasing the chances of other injury modes - but I think it would largely be a wash.

Of course, I'm still all for prudent measures that may improve their safety. For example, rounding off the edges of rotors seems like a no-brainer, which will barely affect the cost of manufacturer and will have no affect on performance - heck, it might even make wheel changes faster, if the rounded rotors slip between the pads more easily.

Still, I feel that disc brakes on road bikes are much ado about nothing, producing little change in overall safety or performance, either plus or minus.

[tuscanyswe]

Originally Posted by ergott

Ugh.

Disc rotors are approximately 1.8-2.0mm in thickness (when new). With a properly rounded edge, they’d be no more dangerous than a common 14g round spoke.

Do you think i was trying to say that discs are the same as meat cutters ?
A disc like mentioned here can be hot and can be sharp (yeah i know they are now rounded in the pro peletons). But even if they were as dull as a spoke..
Out of curiosity. Would you want to put your finger or any other part of your body if fixated into a bicycle wheel going at high speed with a human on top weighting it down?

I believe that exact scenario has been known to cause an amputation or 2 when children accidentally put their foot in the wheels.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by benb

This is nuts.. I find it hard to believe anyone who has raced even semi-seriously would think this is anything but ridiculous.

Chainrings are freakin sharp, way sharper than discs. I've got several bad scars from race pileups where I somehow managed to get my leg in contact with someone's chain rings.

A chainring will slice you up real nice even if you hit it from the side. The pedals don't need to be turning at all.

Heck I have cut myself 2X on the chainrings when I was trying to get a pedal off. It's like the 1 thing in bike maintenance I won't do anymore without long sleeves and good work gloves.

Pedals and a bunch of other things will slice you up good in crashes too. Heck even downtime bosses for cables will cut you. Both things I've also been cut on.

The only time I had to go to the ER after a race incident was a tire slamming into my hand badly bruising my finger (smashed my finger between the tire and the brake lever). I had to go to get the finger drained due to blood pooling under the nail. Nothing sharp involved there!

I think there is something more odd going on here political. I don't really believe Pros are terribly smart/educated/scientific. They got where they are by having good lungs/hearts/legs and knowing how to be conformists and do everything the way the peloton myths dictate things should be done. They are making this a cause for the riders out of some desire to be heard since they have been getting tread on by everyone for decades now. Unlike chainrings and pedals disc brakes are not absolutely required but I really do believe they probably will prevent some accidents in the pro peloton too, and these guys injure themselves horrifically on a regular basis regardless of the type of brakes.

If the riders made any sense at all they would be ignoring disc brakes and demanding safer behavior out of cars & motos that are driving alongside the peloton.

I've got a buddy with a nice 20 stitch scar across his head from a crash involving a chainring sliding across his dome.

Chainrings are no joke.

[ergott]

Originally Posted by tuscanyswe

Do you think i was trying to say that discs are the same as meat cutters ?
A disc like mentioned here can be hot and can be sharp (yeah i know they are now rounded in the pro peletons). But even if they were as dull as a spoke..
Out of curiosity. Would you want to put your finger or any other part of your body if fixated into a bicycle wheel going at high speed with a human on top weighting it down?

I believe that exact scenario has been known to cause an amputation or 2 when children accidentally put their foot in the wheels.

You made the analogy, not me. I'd take my chances with a disc rotor before the spokes any day. Even worse, most spokes are ovalized or bladed. CX-Rays are 0.9mm thick.

Hot? They only get dangerously hot after hard braking and by that point most of the kinetic energy of the rider is gone (slower speeds). Bad peloton crashes are almost always at full speed. The rotational velocity of a rim is far greater and people have been known to get burned on a hot rim too. It's just not much of an issue.

I'm not for discs in pro racing, but it has nothing to do with the how dangerous the rotor is. The rotor would be the least of my concerns if I'm racing like those men and women do.

[tuscanyswe]

Originally Posted by ergott

You made the analogy, not me. I'd take my chances with a disc rotor before the spokes any day. Even worse, most spokes are ovalized or bladed. CX-Rays are 0.9mm thick.

Hot? They only get dangerously hot after hard braking and by that point most of the kinetic energy of the rider is gone (slower speeds). Bad peloton crashes are almost always at full speed. The rotational velocity of a rim is far greater and people have been known to get burned on a hot rim too. It's just not much of an issue.

I'm not for discs in pro racing, but it has nothing to do with the how dangerous the rotor is. The rotor would be the least of my concerns if I'm racing like those men and women do.

But its very hard for an adult rider to get a body part into a wheel and contact a spoke in the same manner one could a disc.

You made the analogy that its the same as a spoke, not me and they have been recorded to cut off body parts.

And again this is not about one or the other or the third (rotor spoke chainring) with discs you get all 3 and that was my original point. More risks..

[ergott]

My point of the spoke analogy is the degree of how sharp a rotor is, not the situations in which you would actually strike one. Take a wheel and grab the spokes as hard as you can. They will not cut you. Rub your hand against the spoke, still no cutting. It's a dull edge that in the case of a rotor you run the risk of making contact with for fractions of a second. I just don't see the case where you would be dragging any body part across a spinning rotor for a prolonged length of time.

[colker]

Originally Posted by ergott

My point of the spoke analogy is the degree of how sharp a rotor is, not the situations in which you would actually strike one. Take a wheel and grab the spokes as hard as you can. They will not cut you. Rub your hand against the spoke, still no cutting. It's a dull edge that in the case of a rotor you run the risk of making contact with for fractions of a second. I just don't see the case where you would be dragging any body part across a spinning rotor for a prolonged length of time.

So ... what is your objection to discs on the peloton? MIne is about to be clear on the following weeks, on the classics where flats happen, wheels are changed and of course: crashes all over the place.