Madfiber wheel purchase

[benitosan1972]

Doesn't the setup of the cockpit kind of contradict having lightweight/aero wheels?

[liray]

Originally Posted by benitosan1972

Doesn't the setup of the cockpit kind of contradict having lightweight/aero wheels?

I understand positive degree rise for bikes rigged for comfort... but yeah, you need to flip that stem down to do those wheels some justice!

[benitosan1972]

My point was... that the riding position created by that upright bar/stem/spacer setup will negate any benefits/advantages of deep/lightweight/aero carbon tubular wheels. Get low bro.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by benitosan1972

My point was... that the riding position created by that upright bar/stem/spacer setup will negate any benefits/advantages of deep/lightweight/aero carbon tubular wheels. Get low bro.

Hands on the drops and elbows bent he would be very low and aero. If you saw the bike with a flipped stem and shallow bars it would still have the same saddle to drops distance as this set up with deep bars. Just saying, quick judgments here on looking "pro".

[thirdgenbird]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

Hands on the drops and elbows bent he would be very low and aero. If you saw the bike with a flipped stem and shallow bars it would still have the same saddle to drops distance as this set up with deep bars. Just saying, quick judgments here on looking "pro".

With those deep bars he should be able to get pretty darn aero.


This isn't directed at the bike owner, if he is happy with the current setup, carry on Anyway, I think the beauty of shallow bars isn't raising the drops, I think it is lowering the hoods. I set my two bikes up with the distance to the drops constant and then used bars with a different degree of drop to place the hoods. One is a little more upright in the hoods and tops for longer rides and the other is a little lower for faster shorter efforts. The position in the drops stays somewhat constant. I know it is a half empty/full debate so take it for what its worth.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by thirdgenbird

With those deep bars he should be able to get pretty darn aero.


This isn't directed at the bike owner, if he is happy with the current setup, carry on Anyway, I think the beauty of shallow bars isn't raising the drops, I think it is lowering the hoods. I set my two bikes up with the distance to the drops constant and then used bars with a different degree of drop to place the hoods. One is a little more upright in the hoods and tops for longer rides and the other is a little lower for faster shorter efforts. The position in the drops stays somewhat constant. I know it is a half empty/full debate so take it for what its worth.

You are right that he can get nice and aero with little effort. But I do think that people were directing their "you are wasting your time with aero wheels with that Fred set up" at the owner of the bike. His set up gives him an upright position on the tops and a low and aero position in the drops. What people automatically saw was low saddle to tops distance and flipped up steam and judged without actually taking the time look at the full setup.

I ride shallow bars like you for similar reasons that you do. They work well for me since I spend most of my time on the hoods. I must be getting grumpy after a long winter and wet cold spring. I need more time on the bike!!!

[carpediemracing]

I'm interested in any ride feel feedback on the wheels. I have a teammate that has a set (a couple teammates actually) but with the cognitive dissonance factor no one is going to say that they're terrible unless they're terrible. I don't remember trying them, or if I did it was such a short ride I have no lasting impressions.

[pdmtong]

Given the extreme drop delta between the flats and the bar end I suspect the op doesn't ride in the drops much given he needs the upright that the headtube extension full stack and positve rise stem are delivering.

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by thirdgenbird

With those deep bars he should be able to get pretty darn aero.


This isn't directed at the bike owner, if he is happy with the current setup, carry on Anyway, I think the beauty of shallow bars isn't raising the drops, I think it is lowering the hoods. I set my two bikes up with the distance to the drops constant and then used bars with a different degree of drop to place the hoods. One is a little more upright in the hoods and tops for longer rides and the other is a little lower for faster shorter efforts. The position in the drops stays somewhat constant. I know it is a half empty/full debate so take it for what its worth.

Interesting perspective. I had alwys set the tops and let the drops fall out since I am on the hoods a lot. but yiu make a great point of setting the drops and letting the bar shallow or deep drive wear the flats fall out Duh! Thanks for posting that view

[bobswire]

Originally Posted by thirdgenbird

With those deep bars he should be able to get pretty darn aero.


This isn't directed at the bike owner, if he is happy with the current setup, carry on Anyway, I think the beauty of shallow bars isn't raising the drops, I think it is lowering the hoods. I set my two bikes up with the distance to the drops constant and then used bars with a different degree of drop to place the hoods. One is a little more upright in the hoods and tops for longer rides and the other is a little lower for faster shorter efforts. The position in the drops stays somewhat constant. I know it is a half empty/full debate so take it for what its worth.

Considering I ride the hoods 95% of the time I should just use flat bars and be done with it, wait it do! Never mind.
BUT if I did ride out of the drops your set up is very astute.

[shovelhd]

Originally Posted by pdmtong

Given the extreme drop delta between the flats and the bar end I suspect the op doesn't ride in the drops much given he needs the upright that the headtube extension full stack and positve rise stem are delivering.

I agree that shallower bars and a flipped stem would probably reduce the extremes and still give decent comfort, but we don't know why he uses these bars. I ride shallow bars because they fit my small hands best in the drops, which is where my hands are 98% of the time when I'm racing.

[FlashUNC]

Bars with that much drop, how can you ever reach the levers as currently set up to do stuff while in the drops? Like, yanno, stop.

[hida yanra]

Originally Posted by Charles M

The wheels I had are also gine

I'm thinking you probably mean "gone"? If not, I'd probably be interested.

Originally Posted by carpediemracing

I'm interested in any ride feel feedback on the wheels.

let's get this back to talking about wheels, even though I know that shvlhd does love talking about gettin'aero.

Those guys were local to me (their fab facility was 800m from my workbench at the LBS.
They were great to talk with, early on they let us walk through and check everything out, and Ric was super straightforward about the stuff they were working on.

The profile on these is a traditional 'V' shape- it gets pushed by the wind more than the subsequent torroidal or now prevalent "super-wide" shapes. They published one paper showing that they were pretty quick at wide yaws, but racers sorta don't care about that... the whole white paper didn't seem like especially bulletproof science... I'd believe they were faster at wide yaw than low, but at wide yaw the wheels get pushed around so you are fighting the bike more than with modern designs... the racer in me wasn't impressed enough to get them, even on the "next-door-neighbor hookup prices"

The wheels spin up like CRAZY- aki, given how much you love light wheels, these aren't a bad call at all.
HOWEVER, they aren't particularly aero compared to even torroidal/super-wide china-direct wheels. They were gunning for the Lightweight market of "light-weight, super cool" wheels, and they certainly got that covered- but they did it just as perception went from "lightness is rightness" to "aero-is-everything".

They never convinced the triathlon segment of the market to buy their wheels over Zipp/Reynolds/Easton/Mavic, and that's currently the segment where margins get made and businesses keep their heads above water.

their Gen1 tubulars are Such Good wheels, they are built around White Industry hubs and they are just bombproof. They had one set pre-production that they took to an in-town CX race two miles from the facility, the sort with steep descents and rooty bits that simply eat wheels. They put the same set of wheels onto a bike every single field, just handing from one team member to another- always under big guys, and those wheels got *hammered*. Ridden harder than rental cars going across Colorado sorta hard.
End of the day, the wheels were just fine. (my team's tent happened to be set up next to theirs and they let us check them out at the end of the day)

So, yeah- those tubulars are super-fine.
Aero? not especially.

The clinchers had delamination issues- they had to bond carbon over an alum bed for heat dissipation, their research was that their customer base wouldn't buy something with an exposed alum brake track, so they had to make it seem all-carbon, and they didn't have access to resins or tech to dissipate the heat quickly enough with just carbon.
So, I'd pass on the clinchers, but those tubulars will last for just about forever.
Oh, and the Gen2 wheels moved away from a White Industry hub to something else- never did hear what it was, it certainly isn't better, but I'm a WI whore, so that was a bummer for me. It makes figuring out which freehub bodies to get on it trickier- that's probably neither here nor there.

End of the day, its sad to see them go- but their target market (Master's racers) got pulled a different direction the same timeframe as MF was launching (Lightweight --> Zipp), and the triathletes never got on board... that's where 85% of the money is, and it wasn't going to work for them.
My shop bought a bunch of their misc parts the day they were cleaning out the shop, so my gear at work is all in a 2nd-hand bank of MF employee lockers. Also, I have access to a few hundred sets of their brake pads (which are cork, and sorta suck)- in case it matters to anyone.

ermmm, OP, did I get your question answered?
Aki, you?


"If it comes down to a field sprint, you probably won't win, so don't let it." ~C. DeHahn

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Bars with that much drop, how can you ever reach the levers as currently set up to do stuff while in the drops? Like, yanno, stop.

That is how all bars used to be. People were able to, yanno, stop...

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

That is how all bars used to be. People were able to, yanno, stop...

Yeah. And deep bars meant folks mounted the levers a lot lower. None of this "level transition from bars to hoods" nonsense. I love deep bars, but it means moving the levers down to use them in the drops.

Depth of those bars combined with the lever position -- unless the guy is Arsenio Hall -- I don't see how his fingers can reach.