Grade % Data

[ripvanrando]

Originally Posted by Splash

Some great responses - thank you all.

ripvanrando - what criteria do you use to link certain grades to either tempo or threshold?

Merckx - can you provide an example interval training detail you employ for hills?


SPlash

8% and below can be done are endurance pace Z2 for me.

9-11% requires tempo for me

12+ requires threshold for me and 15% and above is all out war.

Naturally one's cadence impacts this.

Might sound silly but on a long ride with big climbs coming up, if I know they are going to require a big effort, I make sure I'm fueled and hydrated well in advance. A lot of times the bottom of the climb is flatter and I might take it easier there because if the top is steep and being a modest ability climber, I know the upper part will require a very hard effort. It is more about energy management knowing of limited power. Glycogen sparing.

[merckx]

Originally Posted by Splash

Some great responses - thank you all.

ripvanrando - what criteria do you use to link certain grades to either tempo or threshold?

Merckx - can you provide an example interval training detail you employ for hills?


SPlash

I trained for Mt. Washington, Ascutney, Mt. Greylock and many other HC TTs. Back then I used an Avocet altimeter (pre-Garmin days), and did the maths to figure out the % grades on our local training hills. I used a 1 mile section of a local hill that was @ 12% that was a good five minute effort and ideal for Mt. Washington training. I also found an 18% hill that I did one minute efforts on because Washington has some sections at 18%. I also traveled to Ascutney in VT to do longer LT efforts at sustained 12%. It was all good preparation for the events that I did. The Avocet altimeter was a useful tool for me at that time. Now I am not so data driven. I am just happy to be alive.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by merckx

I trained for Mt. Washington, Ascutney, Mt. Greylock and many other HC TTs. Back then I used an Avocet altimeter (pre-Garmin days), and did the maths to figure out the % grades on our local training hills. I used a 1 mile section of a local hill that was @ 12% that was a good five minute effort and ideal for Mt. Washington training. I also found an 18% hill that I did one minute efforts on because Washington has some sections at 18%. I also traveled to Ascutney in VT to do longer LT efforts at sustained 12%. It was all good preparation for the events that I did. The Avocet altimeter was a useful tool for me at that time. Now I am not so data driven. I am just happy to be alive.

Hear hear...some of it is TMI..IMHO..

[numbskull]

Once the hill is winning I don't want to know if worse is yet to come. I try not to even look up.

[steamer]

Originally Posted by ripvanrando

8% and below can be done are endurance pace Z2 for me.

9-11% requires tempo for me

12+ requires threshold for me and 15% and above is all out war.

Naturally one's cadence impacts this.

Might sound silly but on a long ride with big climbs coming up, if I know they are going to require a big effort, I make sure I'm fueled and hydrated well in advance. A lot of times the bottom of the climb is flatter and I might take it easier there because if the top is steep and being a modest ability climber, I know the upper part will require a very hard effort. It is more about energy management knowing of limited power. Glycogen sparing.

I have a 26/36 low gear on my rando bikes so that I can ride z3 or lower on just about anything. But 15% still feels like war.

[ripvanrando]

Originally Posted by steamer

I have a 26/36 low gear on my rando bikes so that I can ride z3 or lower on just about anything. But 15% still feels like war.

Some of the hill we have in the East are crazy. Lots of climbs out West can be done in the big ring but I always wonder what they were thinking going straight up the mountain when doing rides in PA, Virginia, Kentucky, etc.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by cloudguy

I don't think % grade is ever given in real time, unless your device is downloading data from some geo-based dataset. Since % grade is rise/run, it can only be computed backwards in time. Seems to hold true for my garmin output.

Essentially ALL reported rate measurements are delayed, because they can only report the rate of what has already happened. In addition to grade, there is also current speed, average speed, and cadence.

For that matter, everything that the human brain perceives has a time delay:

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...of-perception/

[sandyrs]

Originally Posted by ripvanrando

Some of the hill we have in the East are crazy. Lots of climbs out West can be done in the big ring but I always wonder what they were thinking going straight up the mountain when doing rides in PA, Virginia, Kentucky, etc.

It's crazy to imagine horse-drawn carts going up/down a lot of the oldest roads in the northeast, including Vermont and Western Mass.

[alessandro]

Originally Posted by Splash

What are the benefits of knowing the grade % data in real time during outdoor rides?

As opposed to, say, indoor rides?

[ripvanrando]

Originally Posted by sandyrs

It's crazy to imagine horse-drawn carts going up/down a lot of the oldest roads in the northeast, including Vermont and Western Mass.

Ya. Is that why some of the hills are like stairs? They go up for a few hundred yards and then there is a little level area and then another steep pitch? I notice these around here on old farm roads. Wonder if they cut the road that way to give the horses a little break. The mining roads seem to just go straight up.

[shovelhd]

I rarely look at grade during a ride, only afterwards.

[Splash]

Shoveled - how do you incorporate grade data into your post ride analysis?


Splash

[false_Aest]

The only time I really found knowing grade helpful was when I was training for a few time trials and hilly road races.

Since I didn't have a PM, I could kind've judge how much I had left in the tank by looking at incline, speed, HR.

I'm not racing so now it's just another way to judge how I'm suffering. Because "I feel like ****." just isn't enough.

[shovelhd]

Originally Posted by Splash

Shoveled - how do you incorporate grade data into your post ride analysis?


Splash

Oh look, that part where I was grunting in the 36/28 is 18%.

[alessandro]

Originally Posted by sandyrs

It's crazy to imagine horse-drawn carts going up/down a lot of the oldest roads in the northeast, including Vermont and Western Mass.

Originally Posted by ripvanrando

Ya. Is that why some of the hills are like stairs? They go up for a few hundred yards and then there is a little level area and then another steep pitch? I notice these around here on old farm roads. Wonder if they cut the road that way to give the horses a little break. The mining roads seem to just go straight up.

I think they just cut the roads to follow the terrain, but chose the shortest distance between two points where the terrain allowed. When I'm grunting up a hill in VT, the roadbuilders' conversation in my head goes like this:
"D'you think we should put a switchback in here?"
"Switchbacks? Whaddya need switchbacks for? They require time and materials. Just put the dang road straight up to the top of the ridge."

On Sunday, the temperature was in the low 80s, but it was quite humid. I found what I thought might be the steepest road in Chittenden County: English Settlement Road in Underhill. I was surprised to learn it's *only* 15%, because it sure felt harder than that.

I was looking on the map for something new, saw the contour lines bunch together and that the road went through, and went to explore. Turned off the pavement onto dirt and there was a Dead End sign. Continued past houses and farms for less than a mile to where the tree canopy closed in and the road pitched up. There was a portable traffic light at the bottom, the kind with a generator on a trailer and boom arm to hold up the signal; it was off. The reason for this setup soon became clear: The road is one lane wide. Another sign declared the road open.

Dirt roads in Vermont are sometimes smoother than the paved ones--the well-traveled roads that are buffed by car traffic, especially a day or two after a rain--they're like butter. Not so this one--too steep, and too little traffic.

The pitch and the loose-ish surface conspired to make my rear wheel spin, a lot--there was much jockeying of the weight to keep traction in the rear. It was hot, humid, and steep. About two-thirds of the way up there was a little level spot with a pull-out, and I stopped for some water and pictures. When I remounted, the power was gone, and the hill won. I walked the rest of the steep part, less than a tenth of a mile. I've never admitted defeat before--not even when I rode Lincoln Gap with a Biopace chainring--so this wasn't my finest hour, but it was a Sunday in the country solo ride, and it was exploring.

The first pic is looking downhill; the second is looking uphill.