Dammit, I'm tired of cyclists blowing through stop signs

[SeanScott]

Originally Posted by shovelhd

The average driver has no idea what a trackstand is. They see both feet on the pedals and they think you're still riding your bike. If you want to be taken seriously that you are stopped, unclip and put a foot down. You can't blame the driver in that situation.

So the complete stop, saying go ahead, and waving them to go isn't good enough?

It really is a nice gesture by motorists, it just adds more confusion to the game.

[casparwhittey]

Originally Posted by shovelhd

The average driver has no idea what a trackstand is. They see both feet on the pedals and they think you're still riding your bike. If you want to be taken seriously that you are stopped, unclip and put a foot down. You can't blame the driver in that situation.

That's a good point.. equivalent in my mind to the driver that's waiting for you to pass before turning onto your road, but who keeps inching forward instead of keeping their foot on the brake. From the cyclists perspective, you can't be certain whether they see you and are actually going to stay stopped or whether they're about to go for it.

I can see how the annoyance I feel towards those folks is probably similar to the annoyance a driver might feel towards the track standing cyclist at the stop sign.

[shovelhd]

Originally Posted by SeanScott

So the complete stop, saying go ahead, and waving them to go isn't good enough?

It really is a nice gesture by motorists, it just adds more confusion to the game.

No.

[fuzzalow]

Not to pile on but each situation is different and how one responds is a reflection of their judgement.

For example: I never advise decision making influenced by visual cues. meaning eye contact or waves or gestures from what a rider thinks a driver is trying to communicate to him. But there are exceptions that can be made after a rider has scanned and assessed the traffic situation and this situation may be one of them.

If a driver is showing courtesy and it is just the two of you and the driver is waving you through, then accept the courtesy. This situation usually comes up on a quiet road where it is conducive and safe to communicate this way. When this happens to me, because this happens when the driver is making a left turn, as I go past the driver window I wave and say "Thank You" as I go past - Kill 'em with kindness I say. Because I want to acknowledge their consideration and courtesy, I want them to come away from our encounter as feeling normal and non-confrontational. And I want to give them a reason to continue this safe and coexistence behaviour going into the future with other bicyclists.

Originally Posted by SeanScott

I have many standoffs where the car has the right-away and I am in a track stand waving them on but they won't go.
I believe that awareness has gotten better.

Don't screw up a situation initiated by a driver courtesy by a standoff in insisting on greater courtesy between you two - he didn't let you through the way you wanted to be signalled to be let through so you had a pissing match over that? How smart is that? Just go through and don't make it into a big deal. In the bigger picture you want to make these interactions commonplace and normal.

Yeah awareness may be getting better. Be aware and sensitive to the lowering of the temperature when bicyclists interact with drivers because that is a good thing. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Originally Posted by shovelhd

The average driver has no idea what a trackstand is. They see both feet on the pedals and they think you're still riding your bike. If you want to be taken seriously that you are stopped, unclip and put a foot down. You can't blame the driver in that situation.

True. The best way to survive out there is to see things not just from your own vantage but from theirs too because it will alert you to behaviour on their part that will change a rider's threat profile for any given situation. Right or wrong on a driver's part, to ignore any driver's potential actions is to imperil one's self. To loosely paraphrase Henry Ford - you wanna be where they ain't.

Be careful out there.

[Tony]

Originally Posted by shovelhd

The average driver has no idea what a trackstand is. They see both feet on the pedals and they think you're still riding your bike. If you want to be taken seriously that you are stopped, unclip and put a foot down. You can't blame the driver in that situation.

Good point. However, this is not limited to both feet on the pedals. Some drivers just want you to go first, token, gesture...? AND then there are those who are waiting for the opportunity to make sure you obey "like the rest of us" even going the extra mile to do so.

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by shovelhd

The average driver has no idea what a trackstand is. They see both feet on the pedals and they think you're still riding your bike. If you want to be taken seriously that you are stopped, unclip and put a foot down. You can't blame the driver in that situation.

agreed and to take it further, the avg driver has no idea what the challenges and motivations of a cyclist are.

my daughter has ridden lots of asphalt miles with me on her road bike before getting her license. when she got her license, all the things I told her about riding defensively suddenly made a lot more sense. she knows how to drive around cyclists since she is one. but, to the point above, we riders have to assume drivers have zero clue about cycling, and worse. most find us annoying.

so, as Fuzz says, keep killing them with kindness and dont ride with a sense of entitlement.

[GregL]

Another challenge I see daily with well-intentioned motorists are traffic signals with in-ground sensors. If I happen to be first in line at a traffic signal (typically a left turn traffic light), it regularly happens that well meaning drivers will keep their vehicles 15-30 feet back from my bike. Since a bike and rider won't typically trip the sensor, I often have to wave the drivers to come closer. When the signal arrow turns green, I always wave, give them a thumbs up gesture, and say "Thanks!" if their window is open. Ongoing driver education, one ride at a time...

Greg

[spoonrobot]

"Driver courtesy" is often extremely dangerous. I've had motorists repeatedly try to wave me into traffic at a 2 way stop, same with turning lanes and merging lanes.

Driver's don't know what it's like to ride a bike in traffic and will kill you with their "courtesy."

As far as cyclists running stop signs, the vast majority around here aren't cyclists but just people on bikes, ain't no way they're changing their behavior.

[Seramount]

had a commuter cyclist blow a 4-way stop in front of me this morning as I was standing on the pedals and getting ready to make a right turn into his lane...

rode up next to him at the next light...no helmet, hi-vis yellow jersey, which seems like a case of reversed priorities if you're not slowing or stopping at controlled intersections.

he offered a 'good morning'...but really wasn't in the mood to exchange pleasantries with or lecture someone being clueless and reckless.

just gave him a stare and said nothing. so, I'm prolly the arrogant prick in his mind...whatevers.

[GregL]

Originally Posted by spoonrobot

As far as cyclists running stop signs, the vast majority around here aren't cyclists but just people on bikes, ain't no way they're changing their behavior.

That's the way my wife and I have come to think. A cyclist is a responsible bicycle rider, road or off-road. The folks who ride like idiots are just GIBs - guys/girls on bikes. Or future Darwin Award winners...

[William]

Originally Posted by GregL

That's the way my wife and I have come to think. A cyclist is a responsible bicycle rider, road or off-road. The folks who ride like idiots are just GIBs - guys/girls on bikes. Or future Darwin Award winners...

There is truth to that, but I don't think most motorists make that distinction.




William

[pdmtong]

On the other hand I've also been scolded by an older group when I jumped through a light after all traffic had cleared and the signal light was still holding for left turns.

[HenryA]

A suggestion:

When at stop signs and traffic lights, act so that no other vehicle nearby need adjust from the normal driving behavior because of your action/inaction. If you do that its unlikely anyone will be bothered or endangered, including you.
So, generally if there is other traffic that could possibly be affected by your presence or action, then make a foot-down stop. The reasonable expectation is that everyone will stop at the stop sign. If you have a perfectly clear view and there's not a car in sight, you might roll it and get away with it. And no one saw it, so it didn't happen.

[pbarry]

You got it there, Henry. Well said. Predictability is the key
to getting along in traffic.

Originally Posted by HenryA

A suggestion:

When at stop signs and traffic lights, act so that no other vehicle nearby need adjust from the normal driving behavior because of your action/inaction. If you do that its unlikely anyone will be bothered or endangered, including you.
So, generally if there is other traffic that could possibly be affected by your presence or action, then make a foot-down stop. The reasonable expectation is that everyone will stop at the stop sign. If you have a perfectly clear view and there's not a car in sight, you might roll it and get away with it. And no one saw it, so it didn't happen.

[johnmdesigner]

I like to stop at stop signs and traffic lights. I've met some nice people that way.
Last year I met a little girl and her parents in the crosswalk all dressed up for her first communion. All I had was a $20 so I gave it to her and wished her a happy life.
Today a man on a motorcycle honked his horn when he passed me. When I got to the top of the hill he was there and asked me if the horn bothered me. I explained that he didn't have to do it for an individual rider. We had a nice conversation and he initiated it which impressed me. He told me his frustrations and I told him mine. I think we both left with an appreciation of others on the road.
I'm not interested in riding fast in urban areas anymore so I am happy to stop and talk or just say "good morning" to a stranger in the crosswalk. They don't expect it and I think it's appreciated.