HED Belgium+ (25) vesus Pacenti SL25

[marciero]

Originally Posted by Tihsepa

I dont think "Kirk Pacenti" is a screen name.

Dont get your meaning. A half-millimeter may not sound like a lot but my remark was made in all seriousness, especially as I am thinking of pairing a Belgium + front with one of these. Am well aware of the identity of the person to whom I was responding.

[Waldo]

Originally Posted by oldfatslow

I'm going to build up a new set of all-purpose wheels.

Narrowed the rim choice down to two and wanted to solicit feedback.

What say you?

Apples and oranges: Pacenti SL25 is disk-specific. Belgium+ is for rim brakes.

[KWalker]

Quite honestly I'm not very impressed with my Pacenti rims. The front developed several cracks at the spoke holes and the rear is almost at the wear marks after 8 months of use. I found my HEDs to be much more resilient and last much longer. I've only ridden my Pacentis in the rain 4 times and am quite surprised at the amount of wear.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by KWalker

Quite honestly I'm not very impressed with my Pacenti rims. The front developed several cracks at the spoke holes and the rear is almost at the wear marks after 8 months of use. I found my HEDs to be much more resilient and last much longer. I've only ridden my Pacentis in the rain 4 times and am quite surprised at the amount of wear.

How much tension is in the front spokes? Cracks are usually a sign over over tensioned spokes, especially on lower spoke count wheels.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

How much tension is in the front spokes? Cracks are usually a sign over over tensioned spokes, especially on lower spoke count wheels.

Kirk addressed this methinks(he can speak for himself) with low spoke count and the need for nipple washers.

It can be over tensioning or like early stans and mid age zipp-crappy rims. Not for Pacenti rims, tho, IMHO.

I've built a few, 32h, and as a wheelbuilder, you can tell a lot about a rim by how it builds. Pacenti built well, quick, easily. As easy as HED, or Aussie A23.

[Kirk Pacenti]

Originally Posted by KWalker

Quite honestly I'm not very impressed with my Pacenti rims. The front developed several cracks at the spoke holes and the rear is almost at the wear marks after 8 months of use. I found my HEDs to be much more resilient and last much longer. I've only ridden my Pacentis in the rain 4 times and am quite surprised at the amount of wear.

KWalker,

If you're really not happy give me a call next week so we can discuss; 423.531.6136.

I can count the number of failed front SL23 rims on one hand. I would like to know more about the build specs. As for the wear, it only looks like a lot relative to the wear indicator. A rim without the wear indicator will wear just as much under the same conditions, but you won't have a reference point to from which to gauge it. Something else to consider is that the brake track in the rear wheel should actually last longer than the front wheel...

Have a great weekend, and I look forward to chatting with you next week.

Cheers,
KP

[Pastashop]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

How much tension is in the front spokes? Cracks are usually a sign over over tensioned spokes, especially on lower spoke count wheels.

The wheel derives maximum strength from the spokes being at highest tension possible, and the rim being consequently in highest compression possible without buckling. It's dictated by basic, sound mechanics principles. For the strongest wheel build, it should be possible to tighten the spokes to (just before) the point of inducing buckling (waviness) in the rim. If the spokes pull through before that point, or if cracking appears, the rim construction is compromised. That can either be a sign of too few spokes, or a crack-prone spoke hole region.

Crack initiation can be delayed by annealing, polishing, or shot preening. Virtually no rim on the market today has those. Stainless steel eyelets help, as they take the spoke load and distribute it over a stronger material (steel), which then distributes the spoke load over a larger area surrounding the hole. But most eyeleted rims use single eyelets, instead of double; the latter can halve the stress at the spoke hole for the same spoke tension, greatly forestalling the point of crack formation.

[marciero]

is how I would describe my experience with the Pacenti, albeit in 650b size, with respect to ease of build, braking, ride, ease of mounting, etc.

[etu]

Really positive experience with my 650b Cl25. Even better experience with customer service getting a replacement after blow out of the rear wheel (most likely due to improperly seated tires) which damaged the rim at the valve stem hole. I am just a newbie with wheel building, so I would put a LOT of weight on what OP and Ergott have to say on this issue. I would guess it's a "feel" thing where when you've handled something a thousand times, you can tell pretty quickly what's good, mediocre, and bad.
Durability, mounting, and customer services is where the rest of us can probably best inform each other. I use GB tires and don't have strong hands, but I can manage to mount these without tire irons (technique, rim tape was critical).
The next build I am contemplating is a 700c disc set and I would definitely go with Pacenti rims again.
Lastly, as others have mentioned, Pacenti is a little more "local" with him being a frequent contributor and a sponsor of this forum.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

It can be over tensioning or like early stans and mid age zipp-crappy rims. Not for Pacenti rims, tho, IMHO.

To add to pastashop's comments, high tension alone does not cause rim cracks, or else the rims would crack during their initial tensioning. Cracks generally form through usage, indicating that it is cyclic loading, not static loading, which is the primary source of cracking. The magnitude of the cyclic stresses depends on the load applied to the wheel, the number and thickness of the spokes, and the stiffness of the rim.

[pjmsj21]

Originally Posted by Kirk Pacenti

KWalker,

If you're really not happy give me a call next week so we can discuss; 423.531.6136.

I can count the number of failed front SL23 rims on one hand. I would like to know more about the build specs. As for the wear, it only looks like a lot relative to the wear indicator. A rim without the wear indicator will wear just as much under the same conditions, but you won't have a reference point to from which to gauge it. Something else to consider is that the brake track in the rear wheel should actually last longer than the front wheel...

Have a great weekend, and I look forward to chatting with you next week.

Cheers,
KP

This kind of personal response is why I would purchase a Pacenti rim again rather than a HED....and I have both Panenti's and HED's. This isn't to infer that HED customer service is not good; but being able to connect with the principal of the company means a lot to me.....not to mention that I think the Pacenti is as good or better than the HED.

[beeatnik]

Mr. Pacenti, I like your style.

[JAWN]

Has anyone tried setting up their non-plus version of the Hed Belgium C2 (the 23mm wide version) rims as tubeless? Any drawbacks or limitations on how high the PSI can go?

EDIT/PS - This would be for CX applications so the tires will be in the 32c-40c range.

[KWalker]

Originally Posted by KWalker

Quite honestly I'm not very impressed with my Pacenti rims. The front developed several cracks at the spoke holes and the rear is almost at the wear marks after 8 months of use. I found my HEDs to be much more resilient and last much longer. I've only ridden my Pacentis in the rain 4 times and am quite surprised at the amount of wear.

I wanted to quote myself here because I actually spoke to Kirk in depth about the issues I was having with my wheels.

In the case of the front wheel the builder did not use spoke washers, but claims to have used proper tension. The damage to that wheel is unexplained and could have been from many factors so I don't want to blame it on the product itself.

As for the rear one thing to be taken into account is that when it rains where I live there is a lot of silt/sand in the road grime. I've definitely had a set of pads wear out within a week of high volume riding in the rain so it would make sense that the rim would bear the brunt of this. It still has quite a bit of life left.

Kirk was more than understanding of my issues and talked over some possible causes with me at length and even sent replacement rims free of charge just in case I might need them. Performance wise I feel that the Pacenti and HED rims both perform very, very well, however, HEDs are often hard to get ahold of in certain hole counts and the service Pacenti has provided has been good enough to where I trust them much more in the case of a malfunction or possible defect.

[pure-james]

FAO Kirk

Do you know when 32 hole SL25 rims are going to be available in the UK?

Many thanks

James